The Town Hall initiates with casual exchanges about weather conditions before delving into discussions on tokenomics, with James joining remotely. Participants explore staking mechanisms for vendors and transactions, alongside escrow systems. The proposed model emphasizes token staking for participation, incentivizing service providers, and monitoring reputation metrics. Token utility extends to governance voting and potential discounts, with ongoing considerations for market dynamics and token supply. The dialogue reflects collaborative efforts to refine Loadpipe’s tokenomics for effective decentralized governance and market sustainability.

Loadpipe Community Town Hall 7: Tokenomics 6

Transcript:
(00:04) J’s good I think Jose’s good teacher and a student right was I wasn’t such a bright student to be honest but I was I was just so last last week the meeting was pretty interesting so I went ahead and make some points took some notes on it immediately and I think I what good teacher is always a good student I wouldn’t agree with that John sometimes being a bad student gives you a a a view on how to be a good teacher we’re waiting for James but I had a call with him earlier how’s everybody doing it’s Friday yeah
(00:45) this this week was in nice it’s nice it rained again here in changai we like rain right John oh nice makes a better exactly I wouldn’t mind a bit of here it’s really hot and torid here in Venezuela dry a dry season there and a rain season yes we’re pretty much into the thick of the dry season here it’s just dry season and wet season yeah same is true here it’s just it’s just the first rain of the rainy season it’ll be Dr there’s Jim hi Jim Jim we don’t hear you at least I don’t Jim James
(01:31) I was trying to figure out how to do like a double golf just because my PC audio is not very good which is last trying to join my because I’m going to be screening as well that’s said can you guys hear me yeah we can hear you loud clear yep okay all the better yeah yeah so you guys were talking about rainy season we are getting that we had the first rain like two days ago yeah we’re getting lucky it rains it rains today and a couple days ago so yeah for those that don’t know that might up yers to
(02:04) following in North Thailand there’s dry season where it gets polluted because the farmers burn the crops during the dry season so it gets pretty nasty in the air so rain is good it clears it clears clears out the air stops the burning Al so there’s still a lot of bur farming in in Thailand yeah I think it’s also neighboring countries like Burma and others it also rained the storm went through all soed everyone with rain so we should be good for a couple days okay I think James if you’re ready we’re here yes yes
(02:47) no I am I’m just out and about as usual so CL yeah I’ll I’ll share my screen and John I did just have a chance to check your homework that’s awesome very very different I so I think today is going to be kind of fun because it’s going to kind of be like show and tell yeah I definitely want to see what people have been working on or the conclusions before we actually start so John I know you put something together did anyone else on this put something together I did not I forgot we had no it’s okay you’re not naughty
(03:26) there’s there’s no homework done if you had something and you had thoughts it’s just not to I will I think I sent some to you James privately I feel or we are calls maybe but I don’t think I wrote it down or maybe I put I think I sent it to you privately about some of the marketing stuff at the Colts laod that’s what it was where is where’s yours John excuse me where’s your homework or you only sent it to the teacher or did you send it to the whole class yeah yeah so I’m gonna I’ll share
(04:01) my screen and then John had just DM it to me was a sort of screenshot so John I’m sorry didn’t your homework ahead of time but it works really good again very different approach I appreciate frankly the geometry yeah so up you guys see yeah it is nice yep so John can you can you lead us yeah be easier maybe if share my screen would you like mind sharing this maybe in the toomics chat group or so so we can zoom in yeah okay yeah sure yeah let me do that okay James I posted something on the tokenomics chat group immediately after
(04:51) last week’s meeting I don’t know if you saw it regarding let me check it was yeah it’s a few messages up up from the last message on the token design team chat it mostly focused on on on questions about whether vendors H how should vendors stake and and if sellers if buyers should stake tokens as well yeah maybe something that’s before we jump into what John the John C is we we’ve had some like a messy terminology here because we essentially have two kinds of staking As I understood we have the staking like the
(05:44) stake to make vendors and Market places just some amount of money or tokens that they need to stake in order to you play the game and then we also have staking on the transaction level which is this sort of like Mutual escrow system potentially between the buyer and the seller for individual transactions mind d That’s my understanding of it but I I think part in part of this discussion we we should try to like clarify the terms which one is taking and which which one is like some other work well well yeah I mean that that’s
(06:19) pretty clear James but I was referring I was referring to staking not the kind that that buyers use when normal ordinary transactions but rather staking for some some special cases like if you’re buying a really a really expensive piece of equipment and there there could be a remote case it has it doesn’t happen quite often but it it it could happen where the carrier deems the package is lost yeah and then like a month later it just magically changes to delivered and the buyers and the sellers hit with a cost
(07:00) but the the buyer has kept the item basically for free because the esro was cancelled and everything yes so they they got double paid yeah so I think there was mind you a lot of Merit in your document I did read through it I think it’s not even in h case I think it opens a can of worms that we should open maybe maybe not today but that pertains to one of those educ scenarios and then also the vendor buyer relationship right because that’s what we’re discussing and I believe in what you had put in the
(07:31) document you were mentioning that in those cases in those examples the buyer themselves could potentially put forward some sort of escrow of their own in order to receive a discount just to sort of mitigate or smooth over some of those instances that said I I think we should probably Circle back to that later on in the call just because we’re we’re looking more at the the macro level right now and that is like one of many very Val not even micro that’s still kind of macro but like yeah let’s let’s figure
(08:04) out the the the big canvas and then and then discuss that I think there’s a lot of validity in but let’s look at what John and put together first I think that would be PR the is my screen visible yep you guys see my screen yep yeah okay yeah so my motivation was not to propose a design but just to have something written have something drawn so that we can see the shapes of things and move around and discuss them and stuff more us so just more like as a starting point so I’m not proposing this as a design it’s just
(08:42) like a possible viable design but it starts with the marketplace so the marketplace in order to use the protocol has to St into a vault and that Marketplace can charge fees to its participants buyers and sellers however it sees fit maybe it has different Market places they have different ways to doing that but in order to use the protocol it stes into a vault it has to keep a minimum amount of load pipe token in this Vault where against the load pipe token is we’ll get to that I guess shortly but so the marketplace required to keep a
(09:24) Min minimum amount of this VA if it goes below the minimum then guess the marketplace could be like penalized or something like that and I suppose that at some point they would just not be allowed to use the protocol anymore so the Vault will get will get will degrade with use as they use the protocol like as sort of a protocol fee will be taken out of the Vault it will flow back into the treasury so marketpl incentivized to keep the Vault sted but maybe also just to not to penalize High your volume maybe the rate
(10:09) decrease I mean there could be a lot of little adjustments like that but maybe like the rate could decrease to for Market places with higher volume something like that so that’s that’s an outflow into the treasury we have Market places taking token and then that slowly flows back into the treasury the pays out to service providers the service providers could be judges reviewers or maybe even relay operators if we want to include the relay system in on that but whoever provides uh service like does work for
(10:46) the protocol they are rewarded with token so that’s an outflow from the treasury so the demand is the market place even token to use the protocol and the supply is rewards to ERS in the protocol and then going back to the Marketplace Marketplace needs to get the token from somewhere so they can either buy it in the market peer-to-peer transaction from service providers or anyone who has it could be even other Market places or they can buy it from the treasury which is the buyer and seller of Last Resort and that’s pretty much like
(11:21) the so Supply is created by rewarding and demand is is created by marketplaces leading to stake and this is going to be a balance of supply and demand that’s going to set the price of the token and that could be adjusted by tweaking different variables like the treasury could adjust the amount of reward it gives for certain actions or it could adjust the or it could adjust the rates that it charges for use when it decides to give out rewards it could new so inflating Supply it could use you could just pay out from
(12:02) L its own stash so not inflating Supply some little things that the treasury can do manually to kind of affect things if things are going too far one way or the other and then in the future maybe that could just be automated sorry excuse me yeah oh no my side sorry go ahead no it was it was error on my side go ahead yeah so when you say automatically I think initially and maybe forever but initially we’re probably going to want some sort of Treasury Dow component to sort of do this as a manual process and
(12:49) then especially from like the sort of like Risk regulation point of view we’ll probably want to do something that’s sort of algorithmic and I think we’re going to be better informed as to how we do that when we have the data when this things actually Li and the reason you do that is because if you’re doing monetary policy in the wrong way you could he perceived something that market information even though it’s purely in Earnest we’re not trying to do bad stuff here so but yeah I I think we’re going
(13:19) to want some sort of like sow within the lowol specifically focused on that ratio of distribution to burn or things like that or rates and whatnot and if we kind of want to cover our ass in that regard I I suppose we might even include some of the vendors from the initial Market places as part of that committee with the understanding that it’s probably a temporary thing and not a forever solution yeah I think good system would be one where we have control at the beginning like manual control at the beginning until things get off the
(13:53) ground yeah I understand what you’re saying about like legal kind of issues yeah we don’t know about stuff like that but makes sense but more manual control the beginning just kind of tweak parameters and then slowly let go and make it more decentralized as it kind of comes to maturity see where the issues are and stuff and I think like a next the next step would be like whatever system we decide like next steps would be gaming and simulation like trying to figure out how the system can be manipulated and ways that that could be
(14:31) yeah John you and I didn’t actually meet but first time I had met with the team officially discussing this something I I talked about quite a bit is from any sort of design point of view you can understand like 90% of the problems the total Clarance so like scenarios where you have all the money in the world zero all the transactions totally good govern totally bad and so yeah I I think when we have something solid which I think is going to be soon as a team then we’ll try to break it yeah no I I I really like your design
(15:10) here maybe it sounds like a little bit silly to the team but the circular design I think makes more sense in that it sort of creates this imagery of like a nucleus decentralize centralization I think and I think like Lo pipe for example like yeah we have the sort of Treasury with that but then we have like maybe an outer ring which is lo pipe itself to Lo pipe down and I think something that we haven’t discussed as much is the sort of introduction through the C cellular cellular boundary for like viewing this
(15:48) the treasuries the nucleus l p is the sort of wall and that sort of process like we we’ve thrown around we expect people to be staking if they’re vendors or Marketplace sleep providers but we also haven’t actually discussed those yet so not just yet I I I think that’s something we’d like to talk about as well that that said John I would like to show what I have for some conversation but oh I was going to say is there anything else that you would like to point out no there some notes in the markets
(16:20) there I me I just did it earlier today so I hav’t really on it through but the the design makes it look centralized but I think that it’s not as Central as it looks the vault is in the center but maybe responsib of the Vault be a different model be the responsibilities of the Vault be like offloaded to relays service providers or something like that there’s probably a lot of different PR that it’s it’s not actually centralized it’s well organized I think yeah we we have a vault which is doing this
(16:55) cryptoeconomic policy the fact is there’s no escaping that Lo pipe is a protocol right and it’s doing protocol actions and sub consequentially Lo pipe where some components of the protocol are in the center of every Everything the marketplace participants are actually well engaging with that said I think as far as like the marketing team might be concerned we really have two groups right we have the traditional vendors who are already accustomed I dare say numb to the P from engaging with traditional we Market they’re not going
(17:33) to be too worried about centralization rather the people will be will be of crypto like our buyers I think they’ll they’ll understand there’s there are ways to communicate the same product yeah and centralization comes with some benefits as well so some balance of centralization and decentralization is not necessarily a bad thing it’s not like all or all or the other it’s not like because decentralization is good or decentralization is better the right balance is probably what we want I I entirely agree but I’d like to
(18:12) go back to something those that again on the first night like we’re talking about the negative actions members or Marketplace creators or vendors could do like selling weapons for example right and I don’t think as a protocol as a technology provider we should concern ourselves with that we should create the tooling so that if we have to step in because the government or a government knocks on our door then we can but otherwise that should entirely be in the places so I’m G to share my screen I I don’t have as
(18:50) much of the governance I have one I love I love this but I have comment if I could share now or later just yeah I I have a question model as well go ahead Mike I I like it I guess I just wonder is the seller staking now or anywhere or it’s just the marketplace now in this model in this model the seller is not staking now the seller is just get paying fees to the marketplace okay again I’m not advocating this is just an example and I have a question on because see like the the the central difference here is like the the degradation of the
(19:34) state for the marketplaces so in that world we would write like a contract that like slowly drains the underlying stake funds and then with the marketplaces just have to like continually Reby and replenish their like contract I guess or would be like thinking on this the amount of would with use like with use of the protocol and yeah they would have to keep replenishing it they will be incentivized to keep getting the token and then get it into the but would would replenishing occur automatically I mean if sellers stake a
(20:24) certain amount of token once the transaction is completed they get it back right once the no in this model they don’t get it back be like variations but like a Marketplace needs to get tokens somehow right so another way they could do this is by being a service provider themselves like if they if they provide services as well as be the marketplace then they can they’re they’re like handling the supply side and the demand side both themselves and maybe they can have a net zero cost in that way cost of
(20:58) doing business business wild thought that sing that staking contract could be also doubling as a pay Master right so and we’re using our us20 as the sort of like settlement token for that pay master I mean again it’s going to require thought but that’s that’s one possible impation and then that’s like is also like okay so they’re bundling transactions and paying for user transactions they’re paying for them in underlying token which would require them to keep their state like well supplied
(21:37) right exactly I mean I was always under the impression that the staking load tokens was the kind of an insurance to Ure that the transaction goes well so it make sense transactions completed to me the the sellers should get their tokens back okay yeah maybe St is being misused as a term here then because I don’t foresee that I mean I didn’t think that was not what I was thinking about when I when I was so so I this is what I was trying to bring up earlier in the the call is and maybe it’s me as well but it seems I’m not
(22:15) just the only one there are essentially two kinds of staking that we’ve discussed as a team the first is staking in order to participate period so marketplaces have to stake some amount of funds permanently as long as they want the marketplace to exist and vendors have to do the same in order to be a vendor on set Marketplace that’s staking number one then you have staking for the individual transactions the sort of cool stuff that you had shared earlier in is that correct because I’ve heard them both and
(22:51) I don’t want to compl the two terms guys I I’ve never thought that staken had to be per transaction I thought I thought it was sort of an insurance but not for transaction it’s actually for as long as the seller is selling on the marketplace it has to stake some tokens as a sign of good faith towards the buyers yeah understand there was just one St as far as I understand it I think where the confusion is coming in is that James referred to esro sing earlier right and so like escrow on a per transaction
(23:31) basis is not like I would not use the phrase St and I think in our earlier staking always created a role and John’s that that diagram did not have seller vendor staking but only was sort of an explanation of like Marketplace staking right because we because again those are like sort of the two roles and we also identified like judges as someone who might need to stake in order to like get in to their role but like marketplaces that that is an explanation how we might Implement like Marketplace taking where they’re paying the through
(24:07) their state and then there’s no like vendor staking in that diagram and again that’s that’s how I’m understanding the the the the not only the diagram but also the the miscommunication James I’m also pretty clear that I mean they’re staking that that the buyers do when they want to purchase something that’s Marketplace staking so to call it that way but when add call esro yeah esro yeah let’s call that escrow okay so but when andr was raising the point about he that he was under the
(24:40) impression that there’s that sellers stake a certain amount of token once as an insurance I still think that a seller should should stake I mean that that would occur automatically of course Stell should stake an amount a certain amount of low token based per transaction why because that that’s that’s how much the seller has to respond with at any given time if transactions go south so again I I yeah I just think it’s like a just good for the team this is already very productive so we have the actual staking in order
(25:18) to participate and then we have escro escrow for even some of the educations you outlined that can be like a pretty normalized thing and depending on how fast these transaction happen it’s not any sort of friction point for the buyer because they’ve essentially bought it and what you’re just doing is giving a delayed refund in certain cases so yeah we have staking and then we have ESC and the transactional component like I’m not going to talk about today I think we if we really want to get this done we need
(25:50) to iron out the high level because there are so many niches that we can drill down to in each one of like differents so yes okay we have escrow for transactions and we’ll get to that later and discuss how to execute that the best but before then can you guys see my screen I don’t see your screen yes oh I see it now try again I do okay yeah so this is very simple I think our actual solution is going to be very very simple and we want it to be simple especially for vendors in Marketplace so essentially right
(26:34) here way we have everyone that exists before load m in the beginning of the world there was nothing and then there was light so in order for anyone who wants to be a market maker or a vendor or a market maker or a vendor in another Marketplace they need to go through process that currently calling it steak to make in my mind steak to earn Market maker Market maker is someone who pays in order toan a Marketplace which is something we we talked about several times and if that’s not just right no no no I would just call it market like
(27:08) Market maker is a I don’t know it it’s like Market maker I think of like lb right yeah no I know but they are literally a market maker I totally get you though true all right so Marketplace maker yeah anyways these are just individuals they have to go through this stick to make process when they stake some amount of currency then they they either have a Marketplace or they have a page on whatever the vendor store is or however we that information I’m sticking with two here it’s not necessary it’s
(27:44) just we know there’s more than one Marketplace we’re going to start with hanza we might have some so at this point they haven’t done anything they haven’t made any sales they they haven’t done any sort of Cs however as soon as they do sales and I think this is something we’ll discuss later on maybe not this specific call I think we should collect fees on a Marketplace level I think that’s simpler for us and it also provides them a little bit more autonomy and flexibility on how they do that I
(28:14) think maybe it’s bi-weekly or maybe it’s monthly or maybe if the gases are cheap enough depending on technological implementation we can do it instantaneously I know there are things for that regardless we’re collect in money from the marketplace that is our transaction fee and that is the vast amount of how we’re earning the currency that we’re going to use mind you this is not the currency we’re going to use to pay the team or how the how we get rich this is rather like operational fees and
(28:48) fees to fund any sort of toonomic monetary policy that we have so that goes into a vault and we’ll revisit this later and then these Market places that can do governance I say governance determines policy penalties proceeds and purpose I was trying to have all the piece but essentially they get to self-govern up until the point where we literally have a problem with government governments and we have to like step in or like a vast majority of the the people on the load pipe protocol or using it are upset so primarily it’s
(29:26) them they can determine how rewards are distributed later what their penal process looks like internally what sort of roles they assign what sort of monetary benefits they provide people who are operating as like governors in the various different categories we discussed it’s all them we give them the tools and after we determine the tokenomics I think we’re going to spend quite a bit here in order to give them the best out of the box toolbox for them to use so from there where we get interested again as a
(30:00) protocol is the reputation we’re checking their homework we’re seeing how they’re doing we’re measuring those sort of metrics and based off of the reputation and we discussed reputation score before which is the pro prototype right is sort of all these variables I’m sure it’s going to change over time and it’ll certainly change after in launch but the idea is we measure how good they are as a Marketplace based off of various differents that both the user as well as other vendors in the marketplace
(30:35) care about from that we give emissions and so this is our inflationary action this is decreasing the price of the token temporarily this is just rewarding people with more of the token okay we’re we’re currently discussing a non-finite supply of tokens and we can play with that later if you guys want so inflation we give rewards we print more tokens that rewards good actors and they can distribute them based off of what the marketplace deflationary back to this load pipe earnings fault this Market maybe it’s 1% maybe it’s half%
(31:16) it’ll be determined by some some members of the team initially and then when we understand things better probably automated but what we can do with this money is a buy back and burn so especially initially right we’re we’re not chasing as much revenue we’re we’re trying to stabilize things and grow to a sort of point where we can exist and consequentially we want to support token price and so we can literally throw everything beyond what our expenses are at a buyback in and we don’t have to
(31:48) turn that off I think Unis swap well not Unis swap but various prod all sort of have this switch built into the smart contract which will turn on or off this behavior and sometimes they automate it sometimes it’s in the hands of the team but it is a very powerful tool and it’s also powerful for like belief in the system itself which is important otherwise people get skidish so token utility is very simple it’s used for voting power for governance and obviously marketplaces and vendors are going to care about governance because
(32:21) this is how they get paid this is how they determine their individual tax transactions it’s also how they deter rewards for governance or anything pertaining the money flowing into and out of vehicle system they care for that regard something else I think again we can do is like a discount some way even for like a vendor a discount might be something like while the opposite of a discount they they get a discount on the transaction fee that we collect for example the idea being is we’re giving them money but only money they can spend
(32:55) within the load pipe ecosystem right and yeah that those are those are my thoughts what do you guys think yeah I think it’s really good it’s definitely I think I saw some thumbs up in the in the group too I mean you don’t see any utility that’s stake to make isn’t in token utility it is right well there there’s there’s a huge amount of utility so whe whether or not we require load pipe token to be a barrier of entry in the ecosystem is up to us and I think that’s actually less important because I think
(33:33) the utility is certainly there if we have actual marketplaces and we have actual users and we actually give vendors and Market maker or Marketplace makers the tools they need to self-govern they already have the incentives like especially because it’s the sort of mutual cooperation Mutual self-destruction sort of relationship right the vendors do want different things in the market makers and vice versa but they kind of have to work together in order to succeed yeah they’re going to want the token or that
(34:06) ever changing relationship in my mind I agree I do like this I’m guess I think audre said it earlier in a call another conversation but I think what if something bad happens three months later that’s not really just on per transaction but it could be like a bad actor or a bad product later I mean where would those fun come from or there’s no no yeah my goal here isn’t the what if something goes bad because as soon as we as a team agree on something like this then we can try to break it and it’ll get probably twice as
(34:44) size it is right now and then we still have to drill down into the individual components to determine them right like I’m using a lot of abbreviation like Marketplace reputation you guys would know what that looks like again that these are all different variables that we’ll also have to determine same for emission same for this load Pipe Central Reserve governance Dow so the monetary policy Dow for load pipe that’s going to require some like thought but like philosophically as a team do we agree with something like this because if we
(35:18) have something like this that’s simple enough then we can start breaking it how are transaction fees taken in this model I’m thinking well it depends on how you guys want to build it we can do all sorts of things right so we can just have a bill to the marketplace maker for example and they literally pay it and they have to handle that we could automated so people are spending cryptocurrency in order to buy things well we can certainly as a protocol redirect some of those FS into some sort of escrow vehicle or vault
(35:57) like a mini vault we could charge some fee to vendors like if gas fees are very high we could just charge like some sort of monthly fee and that’s based off of the previous months like transaction volume and sales that they had like there’s a lot of different ways we can do who is paying the transaction fees the marketplaces or the vendors to be determined I think it makes sense for the vendors to pay but it to be a Marketplace level decision between the the marketplace I think just who’s willing to putli the bill right the the
(36:34) marketplace maker they’ll probably in the state to make they’re probably going to be willing to to fli quite a bit more money because it’s like an investment for them in a way that it’s not for vendors and then vendors sorry you can finish what you’re saying I was going to my next question question sure I think be part but I I already forgot what was Marketplace maker and what Stakes make okay yeah so as we have discussed before and maybe this wasn’t decided but the idea is load pipe is a protocol
(37:16) which enables markets or sorry enables individuals to create marketplaces right not just individuals organizations as well but anyone can make their own Marketplace using the protocol so the marketplace maker is the person that puts things together they’re like the largest business owner G if you if you like guns and guns are legal legal you might create a gun Marketplace because one doesn’t exist for example you might do that for alcohol you might do that for food you might do that for shoes you might do
(37:48) that for music or nfts even potenti yeah the question of who who pays the fees I believe we discussed that on the last tokenomics meeting we were talking about Marketplace charging fees for each transaction as a percentage in some other currency usdt BTC Etc and then a portion of this Marketplace fee being used by the marketplace to pay the protocol load pip could then use this money to buy back tokens yes exactly that’s the buy back and burn here and what I appreciated that you pointed out the most is the fact that we do not need
(38:29) to require people to spend a load pipe or even pay the transaction fee in load pipe if in fact if they pay the transaction fee and some sort of other currency like usdt and we’re doing this by back and burn we’re actually supporting the token price because we’re changing assuming we’re used a decentralized exchange we’re changing the ratio between Lo pipe and whatever the liquidity per token is and then we’re burning it also after that so it’s like a double b sorry Carl back to your
(39:02) question that mistake to make is this idea that in order to be in order to own a Marketplace or own a shop within a Marketplace you need to in good faith Place some money and in order to essentially rent a stall if you want to call it that yeah thank you what is the market maker making the market in what do you mean it’s Marketplace it’s marketplace right it’s Marketplace yeah Marketplace sorry yeah but it’s true I mean that’s I did take a note I wrote it down I mean it’s it’s it is essentially a market maker
(39:45) but it’s a Marketplace in e-commerce but I guess you could look at like that’s my question though like conceptually like as a market maker what are they making the market in like what is their what is their medium for the for Market making JavaScript yeah they’re the person who hosts the mark right like that’s that’s they’re they’re the person who builds the front end right that’s a Marketplace B this is also like an alternative Revenue stream for blood pipe because there are a lot of things that people
(40:14) are going to need so you have tons of earning potential outside of like any sort of fee or even the the token stuff like just helping people set up these businesses could be a business of its own yeah I mean it’s true there’s it’s it’s a little bit more like high touch like consultancy style it made me think about it too but I don’t know if it’s probably better to be a third party than official could be like a private company that we have that could offer that I think yeah I think initially after hza
(40:45) we’re going to want to do that anyways even if it’s not a permanent thing just Ki things off it’s a sort of free development he PC from like plenty of those protocols even if it’s just for free I’d agree with the free yeah I mean it’s true we want to work with the users which are the marketplaces yeah so just to stay on topic though that’s what I’m thinking and so back to the currency control we have two actions that we can do for our monetary policy we can determine the ratio of rewards that we
(41:19) give and even this chart is a little inaccurate we’re going to put it in some sort of like bigger ball and they can determine whether or not they get that correctly to people in govern they split it on that’s up to them but that’s our positive switch adding more tokens reducing token price but increasing enthusiasm and then we have our deflationary action which is using the fees that we collect from marketplaces and we can discuss that more but the fees we collect from Market places for a buac and that’s still
(41:52) enthusiastic it’s still a good thing there are two very very powerful switches on either end do you guys the source of demand I just want to make sure I understand how this works the source of demand is comes from Governor judges need to stake to be a judge right where’s demand coming from so we have two vectors of demand based off of generally two kinds of people that you’re going to see you’re going to see the vast majority of Market placed makers and vendors will care about governance because governance is not
(42:29) just how they determine their actions which influence Marketplace reputation th the tokens they earn but governance also determines the marketplace behavior for example we discussed in the last economics call that you as a Marketplace can decide to add an additional fee for additional revenue on some sort of transaction maybe 1% maybe 5% if you’re the best Marketplace ever whatever people can tolerate they can decide and that’s determined by governance so if tokens equate to to votes in that scenario they’re going to they’re going
(43:05) to want to be able to vote for that um so one needs to stake the token in order to participate in governance would be for the governance because this this whole this Tiny Box could actually be a is that the main source of demand or the only source of demand I think that’s the most important important source of demand but you can’t ignore the fact that some people just don’t care some people don’t care about voting even if it’s in their best interest and so we should have some sort of program in my
(43:38) opinion or like discounts or some sort of smaller level localized individual monetary benefit for people even if it’s they have to pay less fees for a month and if we have like down the line some sort of Buy iion it could be a leral discount for Market places it could be something similar this is yeah an extra money to and Supply comes from minting new token From the Vault where does that Supply go first The Vault mints new token where does it end up so that’s a a secondary conversation because we’re talking about
(44:20) emission emission schedule it is a conversation we need to have this is this is how I see it working when it’s to your question up to your point I think I well I’d have to to see what is currently like tolerable because it’s changed quite a bit but we’re probably if we’re doing some sort of IDL we’re probably doing anywhere from 10 to 20% of the total Supply the initial supply of low token keeping 80% in escrow and rather than printing new tokens probably providing tokens from the escrow itself
(44:54) for these sort of rewards and airdrops and it’s not just going to be a this model we’re we’re going to have to do it for like marketing purposes so very different from like when it’s running what why not infinite Supply so so I think it should be infinite Supply but I think just from like a rollup perspective operating with the finite Supply might be ideal initially for a couple of reasons mean initially yeah initially like the first like year or two of launch like we can say that we can infinitely print but
(45:25) there’s a very large difference in terms of the psychology and I know you don’t like this as much but like the Public’s perception of token price if you have something that they’re printing more it’s a really easy piece of propaganda for the butters in the same way that buyback and bird is such a positive tool in that way and so there is this py psychological component that is unfortunately necessary I think during the days and early stages of the business even though we don’t care about it we still kind of
(45:59) have to make it yeah I I no I I I agree I am philosophically opposed to thinking about this through the lens of like price psychology rather than just like straight utility yeah no the utility is there the price will be from the utility but early on we need everything I think it’s a it’s a big challenge I think we can do it and early early price vulnerability I mean that’s the kind of stuff that kills the project even if you understand in for fact that utility is going to be driving the price in the
(46:31) long term if the price spikes down because of frankly some that it’s no problem we’re going to solve here this way or even as a team it doesn’t matter what we do so we kind of have to handle that it’s like the marketing team I suppos yeah but I think that like that that eventuality only exists in a world where we have like a large initial myth right like we’re if we have yeah if we mint a lot to begin with and distribute it in like an unvested way to marker participants and we just have this like sort of like
(47:10) large token SL but then we’re liable to like up and drive the price to zero right but like again I think it’s more of a question of like initial tuning of the supply Dynamic and allowing mint to oper on like like I guess what you’re suggesting is like that we do a large initial me we distribute to like in whatever like airdrop or team fashion and then we have like a treasury which is then Distributing like a large percentage of what our initial mint is and then we have like this understanding of eventually we will transition to a
(47:49) place where we’re minting the token but and and it like has infinite Supply then eventually down the road but initially we’re just going to be Distributing out of a vault and we have zero sort of like Supply growth and it’s all just like sort of dictated like then the supply Dynamics are dictated by a dow right so we give ourselves the power to like distribute the tokens and ultimately kill the token rather than just like designing a system that’s down from the get-go so there there’s quite a bit to
(48:22) un back there but one you even in what I’m suggesting it doesn’t have to be a large amount Supply it doesn’t have to be a huge 1 billion sort of token initial Nam and then we’re doing this it could be a very small amount the point being is during like the first like three months during like an Ido we want people enthusiastic about the token if anything just for marketing and not even like pumping the token price or any of the pony nomin like you hear about them rather just people are talking about it
(48:53) and by having temporary Finance supp we’ll put it in the white paper we’re not being disingenuous like we’ll introduce more and we have inflationary deflationary actions that the doubt will do initially from the governance C and then eventually automatically we’re not messing with the supply so it can have that sort of initial growth period if that makes sense yeah yeah I mean I think concerned about this specifically like it’s ultimately what the team decides like as as far as like La strategy because there’s more than just
(49:29) that there’s also like whether or not we’re doing an Ido and Ico getting investment funds how this is Ping out because we could theoretically start from zero with zero Supply and that works too and that’s a very different strategy said the difference here is it’s like a framing question maybe and and please correct me if I’m wrong but like I think that like it seems like you’re approaching this from the idea that we’re like selling a token rather than selling a product right like like
(49:59) that’s sort of that what I’m what I’m think maybe is that like I think we’re selling the idea of a decentralized Marketplace and the token serves a necessary function in replacing some of the the business functionality of a centralized marketplace right so the token is a mechanism for us to be able to reward the sort of business functions that that that we have to build that out as part of a decentralized system and this is like you and again why I said like I’m philosophically opposed to like
(50:29) this idea of like thinking about the token in terms of price Dynamics is that like that’s what it seems like the focus is on those parts right rather than saying like well how does the the token flow from the the midphase into like the the judge’s wallets were like okay well what is best for advertising and marketing to token Speculator yeah so you’re not entirely off the market I I’ve already told you I I do approach this from like a different point of view however I I would like to say that specifically what I have here
(51:08) on the chart is exactly what you’re talking about I think this is focused on the sustainable business model irregardless of token price and however we have to deal with any sort of macroo Economics of token price that can be governance down inial before we automate it like the only reason I brought this up is because the the question was asked about the initial token Supply and why we might do that and that is very different like an Ido is very different from the actual businesses itself in my mind and it it really depends on like
(51:46) what the strategy is I was talking to Mike earlier today about like the roll out strategy I think there’s quite a bit that we’re going to have to do like for the marketing component and it’s it’s just temporary because like what you’re saying the vision is I think the the way we’re going to go oh absolutely like we have all the components for a self- sustainable Marketplace that actually liberates people who want to create marketplaces and actually decentralizes things and actually makes
(52:14) world a better place but if we’re doing something like an Ido then we’re going to have to have those conversations and that’s a a team discussion like we don’t even know if we want to do an IDE directly yeah we’re still deciding so yeah I I actually agree with you as far as the actual economics interally well whatever the decision is is on that it still stands that regardless of whether you do air drops or any initial circulation Kickstarter thing if I’m if I’m not mistaken the amount of token and circulation is
(52:51) dependent on Market volume right I mean more sellers taking tokens means more tokens in circulation I it depends on the rollup strategy I think if we’re going a strictly vendor approach we’re not worried so much about token price initially because they aren’t either it’s going to be a sort of experiment and they’re not even going to understand the emission rewards like this this whole thing won’t actually be value valuable to vendors until it gets like some adoption because they frankly
(53:25) they’re just not going to understand it I think and so yeah like with roll out strategy we could do a zero initial Supply and then Min and go from there and that’s entirely valid we probably still want to do air drops though for various different reasons but yeah we could do that entirely no Ido entirely bootstrapped organic growth and rather how we’re getting the growth is indoctrinating and onboarding like vs and buyers which is something we want to do anyways right okay it depends like like do you think
(54:00) we’re going to need a big marketing War chest like or do you think as a team with our connections to people we know that we’re going to be able to get the marketing money the more I look and think about this we’re really B2 be we’re not if we’re a protocol of marketplaces so it’s we’re kind of hoping Hamas and other Hamas are doing the marketing and we’re incentivizing them with token to do the marketing and we’re supporting them to grow and we grow so we’re trying to kind of be a platform
(54:37) Marketplace to grow and incentivize them with incentivize them to grow with us it’s kind of like B to seeing the for the trees for getting all the initial Supply questions because again we can build into a lot of this do we as a team agree with what I have as far as the or like how would you like to change it you post it on the on the chat on the Discord chat so we can refer to it later and give it more detailed feedback I mean I think a lot of people were giving like I said I think a lot of us are liking it but yeah I think we
(55:14) need a little time to process it but we’re we’re liking it yeah I’ll I’ll drop some notes sorry do that later yeah so our goal is to get some things done within a time frame this is not big but it’s flexible enough that we can change a lot of the components for example think like John was saying earlier not just John several members of the team automate things right so we can change this out we can add more Nuance to our inflationary action deflationary action we’re going to have to BU down Marketplace
(55:52) reputation we’re going to have to go through the exact same process we are doing today with like governance same for escrow than you both for escrow as the term so yeah let’s get on the same page get something down put it in the white paper and then drill down from there categ okay great and we said we’re trying to aim for early April to have have this nailed down so we have couple weeks two two or three weeks right that’s why I’m pushing yeah James please sure I I guess it’s too early because you say that this is going
(56:32) to be larger in the future but is there any way we can estimate at least the amount of resources that we need to to hold this in place along the time right like do we need someone to be checking the system we need someone to do the legal part of BuyBacks or or the token emissions I I mean how much res sources will will this system absorb everything in general so so I estimate the developer cost that would be on the the same way that we’re talking about transaction I think the dep is the best answer to that
(57:16) question if we’re trying to have like a cost estimate for all of this so This is actually free because this is us are the ones doing this as far as the legal component far as like the earnings vaults I know there are s cons service that are like maybe $500 a month like larger organizations structure it’s just a wallet address so we just configured our smart contracts to send it there our automation is additional development time that’s probably going to be expensive so we’re probably doing this
(57:53) manually initially any ways to save money all in all I think this is going to be pretty cheap actually besides the death cost because most of this and eventually almost all of this will be big in the code in the smart contracts okay so it will be development cost and yeah I think so little part in maintenance see yeah I think so I think if we decide to go this route like John they’ll sit with it for a little bit and they can probably tell you one thing we also need to consider quite a bit is gas PES and I think we’re talking about using
(58:29) optimism right as a team but gas feeds are important because if you have low gas speed you can solve problems like this in a very different way as as opposed to having high gas speed right where you have a different solution all right thank you I’m sorry guys I I actually have to go this is yeah minutes sure sure sure okay but no is great thanks James and next week the same time and of course let’s not wait till the next call please speak to James or others being then to keep push his head thank you yeah so so so before
(59:07) everyone leaves I’m going to take a screenshot I’m GNA drop it in the chat I’ll drop some notes later today let’s agree or disagree figure that out just so we can get something up and then after we all agree we can start beaing it up be hypothetical like what if don’t sayy HS there okay thank you guys thanks to right Cheers [Music] Cheers