Loadpipe Community Town Hall 13: Tokenomics 11 – Coordinape

This session we focus on token distribution for team and community contributors using coordinape. 

Chat history:

0xBeau — Today at 5:04 PM
Loadpipe Tokenomic Design
Created with FigJam
jlaurentum — Today at 5:13 PM
Can someone please post the 3 workflows being considered? Governance (0.5), Business Development (1) , and …?
Michelini — Today at 5:14 PM
engineers, BD, admin/goverance
jlaurentum — Today at 5:14 PM
I would say that now, BD development and engineering take precedence over the other 2, and then, as the DAO matures, governance/admin would take precedence
Michelini — Today at 5:17 PM
governance/admin is 1 – is it 3 total
jlaurentum — Today at 5:21 PM
The 100 allocation (over the total token allocation) would be the relative weight of the workstream reward….
Ok so W_i is workflow token allocation. sum Wi would be the total token allocation, in our case 250
Each person gets tokens allocated within each workflow allocation…. Lets say A_j is the total number of tokens allocated for each person accross all workflows, then

A_j/(sum W_i)

Is the total % of allocation for each person
Foe each epoch, that is
jlaurentum — Today at 5:29 PM
So, then, according to what you just said Beau, a key question for governance would be: how to decide when a person gets included or excluded from a circle?
I would be in favor of integrating larger teams (workflows?) without a manager, so as to foster a more horizontal hierarchy ?
Jetsetter Jim — Today at 5:34 PM
*Strategy Council
jlaurentum — Today at 5:39 PM
How about using coordinape to decide that? Instead of allocating tokens to other people, we’d allocate tokens to “Workflows”?
Michelini — Today at 5:41 PM
i thnk it is voting for a wallet w/ GIVE Token only
next town hall is in calendar for may 22
jlaurentum — Today at 5:56 PM
Great question: people who don’t vote affect the distribution …
Jetsetter Jim — Today at 5:56 PM
If you don’t vote but others vote, the person who didn’t vote would receive more (unless the platform accounts for that)
Should be a non-issue for now with the team but maybe down the line.
jlaurentum — Today at 5:57 PM
so in the end, you’d have to divide by the total number of tokens ALLOCATED (voted by other people), and not by the sum of tokens allocated accross all three workflows
Michelini — Today at 5:58 PM
we are making a coordinape for distribution on those contributing last year on loadpipe/hamza can you join
0xBeau — Today at 5:58 PM
https://app.coordinape.com/ (removed)

Coordinape | Decentralizing Compensation
Alex — Today at 6:00 PM
Gotta go gents. But looking forward to this first test run. Enjoy your weekend !
jlaurentum — Today at 6:00 PM
Have a great weekend, Alex
David S — Today at 6:02 PM
Sorry guys, have to go too. Thank you the call. Have a good weekend
amatoo — Today at 6:04 PM
Gotta go guys. I will do Coordinape tomorrow and will shout out any questions. Thank you
jlaurentum — Today at 6:04 PM
So going forward, this would be the way to determine each person’s pay (compensation) for any work done in the organization, in substitution of a salary?
Will you be posting this on youtube soon? to take notes….
Michelini — Today at 6:11 PM
yes early next week


(00:02) yeah so Jose is just clarifying so it’s coordinate discussion right oh good morning yes yeah yes yes yes I mean it all ties into tokenomics I would say but yeah this is a discussion about like how we execute and and like I’ll I’ll explain I think a little bit more how this ties into sort of our future organizational governance budgeting everything like that but yeah getting getting coordinate settled is something that’s been sort of on my mind and a priority for us for some time so I think today let’s we we we had a chat on
(00:39) yesterday Thursday and so yeah we’ll just we’ll just dive into it today okay and then John’s sitting next to me so he’s not in the you don’t see his profile on the Discord but John John want say hi hi oh you did okay yes so John’s here Alex says he would tune in I talked to him a half hour ago so but he said he would mostly be listening he’s he’s aware of how coordinate works so so I don’t know when okay I can see me I will in 45 minutes I have Mee okay hello Jim whoa Jim is here that’s crazy
(01:20) yeah yeah 3:00 a.m. time it’s 3 o’ in the morning I didn’t I was almost say didn’t that’s crazier here all right well well I guess as the next topic is we should consider changing the times for I think maybe if push it back a few more hours I think is a reasonable time for all three continents like usually evening Asia afternoon Europe it’s morning morning yeah like if I’m the one that’s that’s inside the the US I can do like 3M meetings it’s okay well Jose in Venezuela I think it’s six it’s 6:00
(02:00) a.m. for him now 6: a.m. yeah okay so with three three hours from now but let’s not do Friday cuz that would be my Friday night in Asia so maybe maybe we consider like Thursdays or something like 8:00 p.m. Asia Thailand which would be three hours later so it still be a little bit early that’d be 6 a.m.
(02:26) for me yeah and that would be 9:00 a.m. Venezuela and it would be 3 p.m. 3 p.m. in I’m sorry would that be would that be Thursday or Friday Mike Friday for me or Thursday I’m Thursday I’m pushing to go a day earlier so it’s not Friday night for us in Asia we have okay some social life maybe Okay so Thursday we could we could make it Tuesday I think Tuesday is generally yeah yeah Thursday true could be also some social later Tuesday Tuesday would be even better for me yeah okay maybe we skip this coming Tuesday
(03:08) since it’s it’s just 3 or four days so we can go on to the 14th get on to Tuesdays on the May 14th yeah I like that okay I I can update the calendar and we can announce it in a channel okay right all right I am gonna share my screen is that okay Tuesday yeah what time 8 8 thail and three hours from later yeah feel feel free to jump into the toonomic sigma I’ll throw it in the chat here is there a chat here yeah yeah there is yes and okay so to to start out so today we’re talking about coordinate and
(03:56) one so like first let’s talk a little bit about like this ideal future State and why I’ve been pushing for po David all and for that I assume you can still see my screen and oh this is colink so I’ve made yeah hza Labs limited is now so so we have this the the first organization which was Hamza right which is where we did the the first voting in this Epoch but we have Hamza Labs limited which I’ve now made a couple of different circles none of these started Epoch or anything like that but but I added
(04:34) everybody who was in the old one to this one as well and the reason why I like coordinate so much is is for two reasons one it forces people to update everyone else on what they’re doing to be communicative within their team and to award other people based on their perceived value rather than thinking about how much you’ve done then it incentivizes coordination cooperation and it’s best to keep that within a work stream the idea being that you eventually create a vault and that Vault has something like usdc in it and that
(05:12) that way we can at intervals when we actually shift to being a dow we can have someone who creates the Vault and adds people to the circle and everything like that and then the decision the Dow can make is to fund a work stream with a budget so they can we can set pred numbers for people who are core team members right so like people can be guaranteed a certain amount and then the the excess amount can be distributed based on the the the outcome of the voting and that can be a mix of hard currencies like bit rap Bitcoin e as
(05:47) well as a token allocation that can be given out of the token from the Dow so that’s like longterm why I think coordinate makes sense and why I’ve like broken it down into the these different teams there’s a couple other ones right like there’s the early foundation and the pre Foundation which I’ll get into which are these like sort of retroactive rounds because not only using it for like continual payments in a decentralized way we also need to retroactively reward everybody who’s participated up until this point and and
(06:18) this is like rather than just like hard coding this is the percentage everyone gets I think that we should just run this retroactive round at EPO where people are included based on the the period in which like work was being done and then and then move forward from there and so that’s why I have this set up sort of like this is we have this like sort of Ideal near future state which is what I just described and I kind of want to fill this out today but then we have these two sort of retroactive epochs which is the preh
(06:50) Hamza and the early Hamza I think we should decide on what period both of these cover first and then we think about like well what is what is a cur round look like and so I had made a proposal into the foundation partner chat which I know like not everybody has access to but the idea was to break the the teams down into like three teams which cover functionally the the the administr or like the boards that we have right like the work streams that we’ve established we’ve established a work stream for engineering we’ve
(07:21) established a work stream for business development and then we’ve established a work stream for governance and so we need to decide the rates at which were Val valuing those three work streams relative to one another and then decide on a period of rewards right and so my initial proposal for this was to just do a 100 for engineering 100 for and and again this is not this is not like hard numbers this is just like as a proportion so like 100 for engineering 100 for business development 50 for administrative and governance teams so
(07:54) it’ be like 1 one.5 and then to to be running that monthly so like an Epoch covers a month of time and then and then we that that way like in the ideal near future state that allows us to and and it could be longer than that right like we could make an Epoch for three months and we could we could create a work stream with a budget for a three Monon period for a team and then a dow needs a natural way to evaluate the work that is being done and so so so any sort of contract that’s made needs to have a an
(08:28) evaluatory period that requires like the consent of the the Dow so you don’t just make like Perpetual contracts with the Dow right it gives people the freedom to come and go and then it also provides a natural way to evaluate the work and the team so anyway so so I’ll stop there for now and any any questions thoughts I’d be interested to hear people’s feedback yes I I have a question David where where would Finance work all here like in administrative or something like that yeah so that was one where like I I
(09:06) had mentioned this in in my proposal is like yeah I I think Finance falls under administrative and governance but I think it also falls under Business Development because like that that was the one worry is like I thought if if we did one one.5 and 0.5 was going to governance Administration then the people that would really suffer would be you and andr and so and so yeah I don’t I don’t know what the answer to to that is or what people would propose because like yeah I I think that would mean that you’re only subject to that 0.5
(09:39) distribution rather than being subject to one of the 0.1 or one of the one distributions all right but I mean like so my my my question or clarification I’m not sure if we’ve decided is this Hamza Equity or Hamza da or is this load pipe Foundation low pipe token I I assume this is token we’re talking about like token distribution and initially I think that means pza like team token distribution it would be the token distribution that we would use for whatever raise we do which I think means Hamza but I also I don’t know I mean
(10:18) maybe maybe it means load pipe token but I think it’s like yeah I don’t I don’t know that we’ve settled on an answer I think that’s the correct way to go about can you hear me by the way yeah mhm for some reason the the microphone’s not actually Ming it is a little soft but I can hear you it’s softer than others yeah yeah so I think going Hamza is the correct approach is really a question of when people expect to see some sort of return on the work that they’ve been doing and if we’re raising investor
(10:52) Capital via Hamza I think that makes more sense we still have some outstanding questions too which I suppose maybe isn’t a big deal that’s some outstanding questions as far as like token Supply and but it depends on the distribution schedule for the team like if we just want to keep track of this until the eventual launch I don’t think that’s an issue we can launch with one token or 5 million tokens but I think those right a comment for scalability going forward we can’t just arbitrarily determine the
(11:25) allocations per team we’d have to have some system for determining that like a V and it might need to be weighted by like somehow affected by the number of members on that team so as of yet we don’t have that system in place correct we don’t have a system for determining or voting on The allocations per team so the so no we don’t have a way of determining what we think the correct like weight of distribution per team is I but like the size of team like the size of Team doesn’t change the
(12:06) amount like so I I let me see if I understand this correctly you’re saying it’s not should not be waited by a number of members on the team is that correct what you’re saying it should not be weighted by the number of members on the team the vote you’re saying that the number of members on the team would should not affect the allocation for teams is that is that right I mean like the team should have a I see I see what you’re saying like I don’t know what what do you think maybe I don’t
(12:35) know I also don’t know but I mean just to also make sure I’m on the same page this would only be from the fourth Epoch right I think there’s one bucket for pre early and now or is this for all four epochs I think that’s so so basically my what my screen is showing right now is there’s like the preh Hamza which would cover up until J whatever period we side up until January there’s early Hamza which covered now January through like April and and then now would be like what is the recurring monthly
(13:12) distribution this would be breaking it into teams and deciding what we do going forward and then this ideal near future state is is this idea of like having work Street does that answer your question wait just to clarify I miss so this the now one is not work streams but the fourth the new one is is work streams right but like ideal like ideal near future state is like adding what John was saying about like having a dow mechanism where we’re able to vote and allocate funds right now it’s like we’re going to have
(13:43) work streams but those work streams are going to be like like like if you think about it like we have a governance structure and that governance structure is currently at like we we just agreed to a constitution we had this in place like there’s a there’s four Foundation partners and making money decisions requires unanimous consent from the the four parns right and that’s that’s like hard power in our system right now that that’s how governance work ideal near future state is like we get these sort
(14:13) of things squared away and we launch a token some sort of voting mechanism which gives the the outcomes of these three sort of buckets the power to then influence future buckets right I I guess it’s maybe the the distinction making here but that requires yeah like a dow it requires a voting system it requires a mechanism to to fund EV Vault and and then it requires like a wellestablished idea of what work streams are which we’re working out with our sort of like Proto governance Constitution okay so
(14:48) back sorry go ahead work streams are circles in coordinate correct yes okay so if we until we have a my understanding is that until we have a way to allocate give allocations or Vote allocations or however we decide to each circle that we are just going to do one big circle for the early rounds and yeah yeah okay that makes sense yeah yeah so these two rounds are one big circle yeah right okay and then going forward everybody on the trappings of doing it in circles like the different rules and stuff like that and I think that no
(15:29) matter what system we go with we’re also going to have to start thinking about way like a system for amending the procedure in the future like what is the procedure for amending our system going forward yeah I think that that’s inherent in like no matter what system we choose okay I just want to make sure that I understand I understand I think yeah yeah no yeah cuz like we like in in terms of in in doubt terms it’s harder because like in constitutional terms that’s like Constitutional Amendment system right but in in Dow
(16:05) terms like medic the that that’s like people would call that metag governance and and it’s harder because like some sometimes it means that you just like like that’s a systems or like a a smart contract engineering question right because like we could make upgradeable smart contracts but then it begs this like sort of permission question and in in a lot of cases I’ve seen like it just means that you have to drain a treasury and move to a new Dow to to change the parameters of the system but like yeah
(16:36) right now while we’re working on this like sort of Proto governance informal Constitution that’s not like a a dow dow then it just means that we need to decide what what what are the parameters for a constitutional amendment yeah just a quick caveat I know you posted something about Diamond contracts a long time ago but that’s something my previous team did have experience in I think I I dropped an article that was written by our CTO at the time he works for a consensus so like if you have questions regarding
(17:05) that and the feasibility of it I can connect you to that makes okay that sound interesting okay so let’s if if we’ve gotten that cleared then can let’s return to this question John had earlier about the size of teams determining like the payout or like the the relative token distribution so when we run the round all we care about is the percentage of like so so the number of tokens that people allocate will always be 100 and then we will apply like a coefficient to based on like the weight that we are allocating and so then it’s
(17:49) like we provide a coefficient of like how much of a like I’m trying to trying to think how how best to explain this like say the first two buckets are like we decide that there’s like a th total tokens that are going here and then in a current round we decide it’s like 250 right 250 per month and so then we would say like okay like I had proposed right so like let’s say and again this is not final again I have that question about where David and Andre spit in terms of like getting the allocation and how like
(18:27) unfairly like how waiting governance and Administration less means that that that harms them so all that aside let’s say we do go with like 1 1.5 then we would say Okay of that 250 we look at the percentage the relative percentage that one person gets within their Circle and then we multiply it by the The Waiting coefficient and then that determines like all that adds up to over the course of multiple rounds we look at like what that their final total is relative to the whole and that’s what deserves determines their percentage
(19:07) allocation of whatever the the the team allocation is at the end of all that did did was that followable I know that was like a little let me rephrase it would probably be best to draw this just so everyone understands yeah but it would probably be missed to write the formula yeah write the formula draw do it in several different ways so that people can see different of it would be good okay so each within a circle a circle a circle has essentially like an amount to allocate and within a circle each individual in that circle gets a
(19:42) percentage of the circle share and the circle share is is the circle share is determined by some other way M that’s all Circle share is is determined by by the outcome of the boat right I’m I’m trying to think of like how even best to draw this maybe maybe like maybe it’s like small big so like we have Circle the circle share is determined by the out output of the vote you said what vote yeah so so like so let’s let’s go to current let’s say like this is a this is let’s say this is the May of circle
(20:22) okay and me grab a person from somewhere okay and me John Garo and Karen are in the May Dev Circle and so we run a round that covers may and we vote for we vote for each other some people vote for the people that they interact with right so it with that pie then gets divided the pie that is made de circle gets divided up into slices and each one of those members takes a slice yes yes yes and so they so like say I’m allocating 100 and I go 50 50 or 50 40 10 right and so and then you yeah whatever like the the outcome of this is
(21:18) like we will all have a number of tokens that are from that Circle right a number of give from that Circle and our relative percentage of that that give will determine our relative percentage of like sort of whatever the total allocation is for this whatever the total allocation is for that Circle for the made Dev Circle what in other words the total allocation for the made Dev Circle each one gets a proportion of that based on what we had just voted yes exactly so say say again we have this waiting that’s like this is
(21:54) 100 or like yeah this is 100 like relative tokens right and then we get an allocation of that 100 relative token based on our participation based on the the outcome of the circle vote here and then we have like the the and let’s just do May Biz Dev Circle and we have a similar thing right where this has like 100 blah blah blah right and these people everybody’s given a percentage based on their relative percentage of the outcome of this circle of these values here which are 100 right so their P also gets divided into slices their Pi
(22:37) also gets divided into slices the BISD Pi yes and each member of the BISD circle gets a certain slice of that P yes yeah and then we have the larger Circle right which is like preh Hamza right and there’s a lot more people and we would do two these rims right and this would say have like a thousand right it’s those numbers on top that we don’t have a system to determine yet the size of each pile right exactly right exactly yes so and I think determining the size of these helps us determine the size of this right because we can also
(23:24) it’s why like sort of these these categories are broken up this way right because like if this is if the the ongoing circles are like a month right and then we and we say that there’s like three of them right theoretically all of those responsibilities have been covered by the people that were in early Hamza and preh Hamza for the things that were going on there and if we decide a time period then we can say well what would have been the relative distribution of working over that time period according
(23:54) to this we could waited a little bit more if we really wanted to because these are like again all all these things were like get a business actually built right and then we could we could so like if for instance these that’s why like if these cover like 250 relative distribution and then these cover like four month periods then a th000 is just four of these right which means that it just runs in par with the amount of Total distribution or total relative distribution that’s going on each month right and so then like a person who’s
(24:28) like a part of this and a part of this and a part of each one of these over time right like as like someone who only was in here or only in here or in two of these and then left or like someone who started later right they would start to get a larger percentage of what this team allocation is according to their like the the ongoing work that they’re doing right as as these circles continue adding up yeah here’s two thoughts I would be afraid of incentivizing like the the want to have one’s team smaller so that the allocation goes so
(25:05) that each person gets a relatively bigger slice of that pie what I mean so if we if we don’t have any sort of waiting this is just like I haven’t fully like thought through this yet but if we don’t have some waiting based on the number of people in the circle I wonder if it would possibly incentivize people wanting to keep their team small so that they each get a bigger part like everyone then everyone would want to be like the one single person in an important team or something like that maybe that’s not an important
(25:38) consideration that’s maybe just something to consider like going forward when we decide but here’s my revolutionary idea right okay each team all right so we have we have the coordinate rounds within each circle as we do where each member gets a slice of the pie then the entire organization is also a big pie and we’re trying to determine how big of a slice each circle gets so why not just make that another coordinate round or a coordinate like round where each team votes on other teams and gives them give and that would
(26:20) determine based on how how important they value that other team’s work those other teams work and that would determine this the allocation for each team I I do like I like but I think the problem with it is that like it it runs into the problem why we would make smaller circles to begin with is that not everyone is like aware of what everyone else is doing and so if you’re involved in like purely marketing bis Dev stuff it’s hard for you to understand how like important the the the development circle is and vice versa
(26:55) right and and the work that’s being done there and so it’s like it BS this question of like how do you value like other people’s cont I I see your point well but perhaps each team sorry perhaps each team could have a representative that is sort of like a manager and is aware of other team’s contributions to the overall I mean we’re not blind we we know the importance of marketing and bis and stuff like that and that they could do the V for that team the other thought is maybe not on an individual but on the
(27:26) other bucket if Biz de did more that month than than than the other two circles they could get more total amount that month than the product team for example and then it would be more for that month for that bucket of the total amount CU there might be months where the product team does amazing or or or it could be like gold Bas kpi Milestone yeah yeah there will be there will be months where has better performance than other team or something I have a I have a similar view like you might and I think that the issue here is that
(28:09) we have different layers of of in the process what I mean is we have a big big project with that we can consider a season right and that season has whatever points to distribute right and then along the season the weight of each department will change depending on the importance of that department in the development side of the of the total season let’s say right that that will be kind of a layer what is if distribution along the months is exactly the same or it changes depending on the relevance of each team in every different part of the
(28:51) project sense it makes sense I I agree that they change but I think that like it begs the sort of question at that John was getting to earlier which is like at the end of the day that is like a subjective determination of like what what is most valuable and like yeah I mean running this running a like coordinate a circle of circles maybe solves that but I like I think that that like long so okay like let’s let’s think about like what is the longterm what is the long-term solution for this and maybe work backwards so
(29:27) like when in when we’re fully deified right like theoretically there is a set of Governors and that set of Governors are the ones that are voting on team distributions right and deciding like what the priorities are and and again one one thing to keep in in in mind is that we’re not like trying to build a perfect system failure is is is an outcome is like a possible outcome and it’s a Poss like we will never build a system that is like that if managed poorly will not fail like poor management will just destroy us
(30:02) regardless and so like I I think at a certain point it’s just like there there is a set of governers who make a decision about like the relative importance of of teams looking forward and they set this like distribution based on what they want to prioritize and and what things they want to and what kind of work they want to incentivize right because this model like also gives itself to like allowing people to sort of like set up bounties and to to expanding teams and and getting things done but then like
(30:33) setting a period means that it’s like there is an evaluation and that evaluation is done by on on just the government side so yeah I mean like I I I I agree I think that the the the value or like the need for different teams will change over time but but again we come back to this like this this primary issue which is like how do we arrive at that decision like of to decide these relative weights of teams and then I think it’s gonna change as we become more deified but from an efficiency point of view I
(31:11) think it makes sense for the the same members of that sort of executive chat that you guys have to sort of determine that because you guys have the best perspective into all the various different facets of the business as we expand and as we change then of course you can the f some of the power I suppose but I think it makes sense yes I agree and and do I I I want to clarify is this going to be 100% of the team allocation or is this a part of it or or is that not confirmed yet yeah I mean I don’t think I don’t think we we’ve
(31:48) decided that I I would push for it being well I mean it’s it’s we know to a certain degree that it’s not 100% right because yeah there are like prior agreements right to to thund degree about some portions of Team allocation so so yeah we know at least it won’t be 100% well and I suppose it doesn’t prevent us from what I think we should clarify that because I might confuse people on this called I think you mean the the purse purse part I hope it’s okay to say that but but I think besides that everything
(32:24) else is yeah like the team allocation that’s left over after other a are yeah but I just want to make sure there’s people here AR starting to assume that there’s I don’t think there’s other arrangements that I’m even aware of besides that one there there isn’t yeah that’s exactly what I’m talking okay yeah I was just clarifying because I don’t want people to start thinking there’s some kind of like side deals or something there there isn’t no yeah from the initial from the initial Pur deal
(32:50) there’s an allocation that’s promised to them that is a percentage of the the the team allocation right but yeah to determine how we distribute the remaining team team allocation I would say yeah I mean I don’t think it prevents us from making specific like deals for like a for instance when we’re talking to to mass market right like we’re talking about maybe doing token swaps right would that come out of that remaining percentage right yeah I think those are I don’t think we’re prevented
(33:23) from from making those deals but like I do think that we should agree on on anything like that and two to the point about like it being sort of the responsibility of the the the strategy Council yeah I tend to agree but I also don’t think that like it should be made in a vacuum I think something like this something like a town hall is necessary yeah but do you think that that system will be I think that’s totally fine for now do you you does everyone think that that system will be adequate for going forward forward or
(33:53) that we’ll have to modify that to be less centralized at some point oh will for I yeah I well then we can defer that decision I suppose right I think we can almost treat it as Milestone based I I think the rough M we have a couple rough Milestones we’re going to be live with Hamza this summer but I tell people the sellers won’t be permissionless until we have a token and I think that won’t be this year event it’ll probably be a early next year event and I think that’s when maybe some of these broader
(34:25) decentralized decisions Dows would would be put into effect at the same time in my opinion yeah as we’re running low on the time in the meeting we just cover what we need to do immediately stuff that we haven’t decided upon yet we’ll have to defer for a future meeting but we we did discuss them and we’re maybe coming closer to decisions on those or at least a little bit closer maybe I mean I think both know the questions do you want to run through the quest what we need to decide I mean those four epochs is
(35:00) probably something right and then the the three work streams are those two decisions yes yeah and then and then like the relative weight right but but just just to put a pin on that like last thing once we get this finished we can actually start like we can start like making Dow decisions right like once we start like understanding what what a team allocation looks like we can start expanding the governance Council and and changing like right now again yeah we have this like iteration the Constitution which is we have four
(35:30) Governors it requires unanimous consent but like once we start understanding what other people’s token allocations are we can start saying like Okay well we just need a threshold of votes to do some of the actions that we’ve outlined in the Constitution and even if it’s not being done on chain it can be done on chain right but like even if it’s not being done on chain we can actually start experimenting with expanding what the governance Council looks like so so yeah so like I guess let’s let’s just
(35:59) start with like what a current period would look like because then that’ll inform sort of how we can look backwards to these uh retroactive rounds so like one month would be my proposal for what around should be or what the epoch period should be I also think that we should adapt the the the global town hall um Jose I don’t I I don’t understand your comment how about using coordinate to decide what sorry Bo I had my B my mic deactivated I was just thinking I don’t know just a crazy idea I don’t know if
(36:35) it’s possible to do that but Mike clarified that only entities with wallets can receive give tokens so my question was how about using coordinate to decide that instead of allocating to other people we’d allocate tokens to workflows but a workflow cannot have a wallet right so that idea is I mean a workb could have a wallet to be honest okay well and I think that that was that was that was John’s idea right is that we have a circle of circles where we decide what the the monthly allocation for teams are um and so I mean yeah I
(37:17) guess I guess that’s like I just don’t know how how we would Implement that so like because then what is it so then we have like a uh we start building like a representative democracy from like how do we decide who’s the the agent that gets to vote in the workflow governance the team should be small enough that that could be decided among the team maybe but these are details we can these are definitely not insurmountable details there’s a reasonable ways we can do this none of which would be perfect
(37:48) but just like any system we create we can come up with some reasonable ways to well you could you could say like each person gets I don’t know 12 tokens or some number some arbitrary number to of tokens to assign among different workflows and then then you that that would be like a voting system for or or or determining the proportion of of tokens allocated to each workflow sum added across all the circle of circle team members yeah or how about this the the circles are like states in the United States and they have some autonomy in
(38:24) determining how they want to elect their electors something like that but we don’t have to really go into it now there’s many ways we I think that’s not a coordinate function that’s like a dow or I’m not sure that internal thing would be something else I think that would be I think Jose is trying to say do that in coordinate I think that would be Circle could decide to that they might be they might be overcoordinated at that point saying was a coordinate for that but I think I thought it’s not possible both
(38:52) said it could be possible but I think that should be done outside of coordinate or it could be up to the team yeah that just doesn’t matter to me well yeah the idea is basically having like a constituent assembly of people voting for workflow allocations that way I don’t know if it would be possible through work through coape or not I think it could be possible I guess B is B this would go on forever right or this this can’t would this go on Ian it’s not forever right these Epoch I mean there there is a
(39:26) limit to the team out ation right I mean right but we’re not but we’re not again like the epoch will go on forever theoretically right like what we’re what this ultimately arrives at is a percentage like like basically like we’ll be Distributing give over time within this organization and the relative percentage of anyone’s give will just continue to change as the work streams move move forward right and yeah it’s also and other things to consider is that it is possible that someone can abstain from receiving give
(40:10) allocation but at what point oh sorry go ahead go ahead I you can go ahead finish your thought first I thought you were done no that that was the end of it so if at some point though the give has to become concrete like people have to get something for their give that’s they they have yeah when does that happen yeah so token launch right so like you get so so like there’s that’s the phase transition right so like so the idea is that it just ear what so the idea is that the rounds continue until token launch correct that
(40:47) way at that time it becomes concete the rounds continue yes the rounds continue until token launch and then that’s what determines like the the the the discreet amount of token which is received by an individual but the rounds continue it’s just that the way the rounds the rounds then evolve into like a straight up distribution of like of money like so then we have The Tokens The Tokens are the governance the the can become the votes that then establish a work stream which is funded with usdc underst which
(41:23) pays for people’s salaries right yeah got you so what are what are the most immediate concerns that we need to to address today then in the last 13 minutes of the meeting it’s I think we just need to decide on like what the relative I mean like I think we just need to start for the first round I think we need to start I think that what for the first rounds we’re doing one big circle correct yep yep okay yeah but but but the reason why I I I think that this is urgent is that like the longer time we take before we like start solidifying
(42:01) like what is an allocation on this period what is an allocation on this period the more time like we’re just going to forget what everybody did we’re going to forget what we did I know and we’re and and it’s going to start to like destroy like the good allocation that a memory of like what alloc what people were contributing at the time they were contributing and so like I’ve already we’re ready to start right what go ahead I’ve already forgotten but we’re ready to start right we’re ready
(42:28) to start then yeah I’m sorry I exactly I’ve already forgotten like what you just said people will start forgetting I need to go back and try to remember yeah right and we wrote A lot of it I think out in the the first round and so like I think what we need to do is we just need to establish like okay we’re going to have a free Hamza round and then maybe like maybe this month we just say like let’s do preh Hamza and then let’s do early Hamza and like let’s do it at two week intervals and the first two weeks
(43:00) we’re going to be writing what we were doing before Hamza and then the second two weeks we write out what we did early Hamza and then that covers up through May and then we start the concurrent Distribution on June 1st and then we start running the circles of the different departments on on June 1st and then and then we only have two meetings one at the beginning of the month one at the end of the month where we just like remind everyone to to do it and then yeah we’re just like communicating that those are the things we need to do and
(43:30) then we can that pushes this decision of when we need to decide on like relative team distributions to to next month but like yeah we or what system we devise to decide what are the weights of the various circles okay that’s fairly soon so I guess we’ll need to start discussing that but so how many people will be in the first Circle it’s the same we you know we almost had it from before just so everybody knows the reason we had to start over is some people didn’t know they had to allocate give or the
(44:02) deadline of the give so we are yeah so this time for Real’s and we need to know everyone needs to know like exactly in very detailed terms what they need to do but I remember last time it was 100 give total that I allocated on the preh Hamza is that going to be the same it’s always going to be out of 100 but the total okay so it’ll also be the the the total will will be so like we could change like the default amount that someone could give to reflect like the weight of of the round but I think it it doesn’t
(44:41) matter all that much because all we care about is the percentage that someone gets of total give allocated in that team that allows us to because then like if we don’t do that then team size does actually affect how much give a single person can get and we would rather look at at the percentage that someone gets in a circle and then weight that with our sort of like our our our relative like team coefficient does that make sense yep okay okay so all right so I’m going to start like I’m just GNA okay so
(45:16) there’s no more questions that need to be answered for the first round is that correct yeah so I think the sticking part it seems like from this call and previous call is about these work streams and amounts and I think that’s right I think that’s been our sticking point for the majority of the last two discussions on coordinate this I think we all agree on the the first two epochs as one and starting them as soon as possible yeah maybe Monday kicks off I don’t know if Bo wants to set it up even now but maybe
(45:48) officially kick off Monday with the preh Hamza you said yeah I I will I will open it up I’ll open it up now and then I’ll say closes on what else to say it closes at the end of the month and I will start another one for the early Foundation like let’s let’s have another meeting and and keep this conversation going okay now how will we know about the contributions of others they will each write like everyone needs to know the who what where when why in very simple terms of what they’re doing here each
(46:23) person must write in the round what they have done and everyone must consider that like read all the things and consider that before voting is that correct yes okay so it is currently open right so we need to give everyone very simple instructions which is the very most essential details of what they should do yeah so people go share the first thing you should do is share your contribution so I’m actually going to go back to Hamza and did it last time yeah this is the last one and then HS of lambs limited is the one that we’re
(47:02) doing right now you should be everyone here and I I think with the exception of James should be on the early Foundation oh no no no sorry and the pre Foundation is everyone who’s voting maybe put a number maybe put a number in front like or call Epoch one colon name so we know what one two three just okay like just at least the first few just called number them and is everyone who’s voting in the round here on this call right now no no no everyone there’s a bunch of people that are not on this I know I feel it’s
(47:40) a lot of I feel the burden of that but I’ll try my best so what will what will happen if people don’t vote it doesn’t affect the overall like allocation a b question no what happen yeah it doesn’t I mean it affects it it affects it in the sense that like they not allocating their give to to other people and but it goes off the percentage of who voted like abstaining from vote is not really but they can still receive they can’t give they’re just not giving they’re receiving and they’ll still yeah they’ll
(48:13) still show up as a percentage of the relative like we can still query the percentage of toal give right yeah like if three people voted if three people were in the were in the circle and only two voted there’s only two 200 give that was allocated but it still just goes by the percentage of that 200 give so the PE the one who didn’t vote is just those just disappear yeah just and so and we can any of us can create an API key I have an API key for the old Circle and we can like pull the data we can manipulate
(48:46) however we want we can look at the maps but I believe there’s a place here to just like look at the relative like literally just look at the relative uh yeah the the the relative percentage can can you guys see this I’m I’m seeing it yeah yeah so I’m fully clear on what needs to be done and how it will work I just hope that everyone is who’s voting I’m not sure what’s the best have to go back information what’s up I’m just hoping that everyone understands what they need to do and how
(49:17) it should work I mean we made a couple of videos and there’s uh I think the mistake was people didn’t know they they it seems like a lot of people knew how to put their contributions in I think it was all filled out out there but then I a bunch didn’t know they were supposed to give yeah so the first thing you need to do is go and just like write down what you did during this period and think and this period let’s let’s say can we actually I’m going to um what time frame do we want this to cover let’s just say
(49:48) 2023 yeah that’s 2023 I put 2023 and the other is q124 and then we’re going to May for three yeah let’s well let’s yeah let’s say well it’s a little bit more than q1 q1’s only three months not four but yeah can we uh we can decide what the how long how long does the vote last is it a week it’s all however we want to set it you can look he’s setting it right now but I think both sing I set it until end of the month right it’s open until the 31st of May can can we have a meeting sometime
(50:23) during that time and just informally just all discuss what we have done just to help jog each other’s memory absolutely yeah I think it’s a great idea well some people are not as active now try the in one of the chats huh L the so you would be in invited to this one let me see MERS it’s a it’s a new is that the wrong link or should I not even share this link I put a link that you had sent me before no I think it’s yeah I think it’s this one now because it’s it’s a new I made a new organization so it’s
(51:07) Hamza Labs limited I didn’t delete the old organization because people still wanted access to the things they had written so so just to be clear like first step is to go and do this and write what you did during the period the 2023 period of the pre- foundation activity if if that’s relevant I also think David is not in this in this round but David will also be in the will be in so it’ll be relevant for the next one so then you go to give and I would suggest adding a note so a lot of people like I think
(51:40) Alex and Mike added notes specifically to people about like their what it was like to work with them in that period so I’d say to that decide what percentage of allocation you want to give to people and prioritize people you had Direct interaction with would be the suggestion but like weird question tangental donate to coordinate just hidden in there is that like a default thing that they do it is a default yeah you cannot donate to coordinate if you want I think this is like this is more for when you have a
(52:14) vault that’s actually being distributed because like if you have a vault that has like usdc or something in it then it’s like whatever allocation you give to coordinate itself a portion of the Vault would go to them which I would suggest people doing I mean it’s not as relevant now and so like yeah we can probably get rid of it for these initial sort of more symbolic rounds and so yeah just in fact I I probably should have just removed them but here’s a question that came to my mind earlier and maybe
(52:43) something we need to decide but is everyone who works on Hamza or load pipe or whatever are they all um going to be in a coordinate coordinate round like does everyone get that by default or does it depend on their contract their specific agreement can you ask one more time I I I didn’t hear my my question is and we might need to decide this maybe it’s not decided yet but everyone who works with us in any capacity are they all going to by default be in a coordinate round or does it depend on their specific contract or agreement or how
(53:23) what is the how you determine that I I think every body I think everybody should be in personally I think everybody that contributes to the project how do we know they want to we are putting it in I mean Andre Andre is starting to put it in we don’t have agreements but starting to put into the agreements so I guess I didn’t want to yeah I mean wouldn’t because we don’t I think there’s no reason why they have to yeah I mean we we shouldn’t we probably shouldn’t just be allocating tokens to
(53:55) people who don’t want them or don’t care about them but I guess if we consider it part of their pay then it just is what it is okay I was not sure if we had agreed to anything on that but so for right now I think everyone who has done any contribution is by default round like does Karin want to be in the round for example did we ever offer that to him was that part of his agreement Etc I did talk to him a little bit about it and I assume that he would want to be in it okay but but again that’s that’s when we
(54:25) start running things conc correctly and so but yeah I mean like people like Dawn people like Ken new addition of the team if they don’t want to be a part of it then that’s fine but if they’re in my mind this is like sort of how we’re determining like team team allation for this period before we have a token how about interns if we bring on interns yeah I mean like to me like the ethos of of of the Dow in general is that like you bring value the Dow you should get power yeah in the Dow okay and yeah as general rule like I I I
(54:58) don’t I would prefer my preference is not to treat it like like an equity distribution where like we’re we’re negotiating rewards of it on an individual basis that’s my preference like again I’m not I wouldn’t I I I would be willing to hear arguments counterarguments and be overruled but like but my preference is not to treat it like an equity but to treat it like responsibility and power yeah I mean we want to be decentralized trying to yeah so I think anybody is eligible and we want it to be public not even private if
(55:33) the community contributes they should get it too so I think the beauty of this of a system like this is that it’s it’s a meritocracy so going forward someone has it’s not like someone has negotiated like a certain percentage of equity and then going forward they just like stop working and continue getting that it’s it’s Performance Based and it changes based on output and results yeah yeah and it allows people to to to to contribute more or less over periods right should to to like sorry go
(56:10) ahead it should be clear there’s going to be vesting on these right I mean I know there’s a launch but would these these won’t be full you’re not going to they’ll go into the vesting pool or or these be distributed immediately at the launch I think uh I don’t I don’t think we’ve decided but but yeah I mean like my preference or like my my inkling is probably at least some percentage vested yeah that’s definitely a TBD another thing that we need to consider is what the actual Equity means or to point non
(56:46) Equity but rather responsibility and ownership of like hza right if we’re targeting that with investor funding how does that equate to actual reward for the the individuals is something we’ll have to discuss and I think it’s premature maybe right now I think keeping track is kind of the B of this but I expect we’re going to talk about that yeah I think this future things is the next call or a future but I think for now we’re at we’ll just B over the hour mark yeah I think we so Bo is we
(57:19) got the invite link but some of you unfortunately won’t be able to participate in this current round it’s it’s we’re trying to catch up from a while so but there’s two now right Bo just maybe we just summarize where we we’ll open up I’ll open up the next one in two weeks and that’ll be the early Hamza phas right do you want to just open that now just I think that’s not a good idea to do two at the same time I’m sure I haven’t I haven’t added everyone to it but it was it was mostly because I
(57:52) wanted like some time for people to write to think about this period and to write out what the contribution was in this period and then and then open up a second round and say okay now think about your contribution in that period right I I don’t know I I be will like if you think it’s better we could just open them up both right now but that was my reasoning what at of time teams better I mean the reason I vote for now both is because I don’t know about you but I feel like I’m going to be educating and
(58:21) trying to get as many of these people to be using and if they’re not able to use it now it’s it kind of mess messes up the Rhythm cuz there’s a bunch of people in this call that probably can’t be involved until second Epoch I think it’s it’s only David and and James who are in the second Epoch and not in the first I believe and then and then gar right G would be in the second Epoch and then there’s a bunch of people who are in the first who are not in the second yeah I know okay whichever way things can we
(58:51) set a meeting for the time when we are going to get together and reminisce let’s call it a reminiscing meeting that’s part of the ritual we we’re going to do a ritual I mean he mentioned Town Hall which is every six weeks or we with it to monthly and that’s part of the epoch is that part of the ritual I I think we should do that I think those things I think I think those things should start when we start the ritual which would be next month and I think all this like retroactive stuff like really to me it’s like I just want
(59:23) to get it out of the way so that we know what like a distribution for those periods are so we can move to like what CU this one won’t look like what the the other ones look like right like an actual implementation of this would look like people sharing a contribution as they make them right so like it would be like ah I did this today or I did this some people may decide like okay well once a week I’m going to like just do a quick write up of like the things that I accomplished and things that I did or
(59:50) like based on on goals or kpis or or Milestones or whatever and so that that’ll be a little bit more like people should be continually engaging with the round because it’s it’s it’s reflecting what’s happening now but to to John’s Point yeah I mean I think we should just like have a have let’s schedule a meeting to have some beers and talk about the old days of Hamza yeah exactly way before all this just want to remember I just want to remember what I’m so busy that my memory just
(1:00:23) goes away from past like two weeks ago okay and we have the Town Hall May 22nd I don’t know if we want to utilize that for anything but on this but we should talk about that yeah we should talk about this on on May 22nd for sure and and but yeah I mean and and as you saying Mike yeah like I think that we should establish the ritual but like but this yeah unfortunately is just not like this these two rounds are just not rituals right like these two rounds are like us sort of getting our house in order for everything that came before
(1:00:55) and then the ritual is something that just like that we do all like every month right and so this one is going to feel weird and it’s going to feel different than what an actual like Circle and round and eoch should feel like okay and going forward in discussing like the future rounds and how we will determine allocations and structure them and stuff we will have those meetings what once a week or until June when we have to decide this I I say we just like yeah let’s let’s maybe make tokenomics about this
(1:01:28) right now cuz as James was saying like so like we need to like this becomes a discussion about this right like filling out this here is like what is so we’re Distributing tokens what then once we give those tokens to people how does that translate into voting power and how does voting power give them control over the token Vault and the cast Vault right and what benefits do they get from having the token at all so so like to me it’s like I I think this this is tokenomics for now and it also like once
(1:02:04) we get these things sort of set in place then it sort of forces our hand to be like okay well what do we do with these tokens okay why do these tokens matter so then that would mean the next one of this is May 14th Tuesday 8:00 p.m. Thailand time so we’ll take next week off from this and then the 14th will be next unless we want to do something next we should inal discussions we have a lot to decide we to some consensus but but but that’s okay formal meeting May 14th that’s fine yeah and then yeah so I think the only
(1:02:36) other thing is like okay so we’ll have governance meetings we’ll we’ll discuss this in the governance meeting for sure and then we should have that that like let’s grab a beer and reminisce meeting yeah I don’t know I’d be down to do it Sunday if you guys were I would also be down to do it like next Sunday and then like that meeting on the 14th will be when we’ll like clean up the the last round and then start the the second round okay always is asking more questions but I think we all got to take
(1:03:03) a little bit of a break but he’s asking about salary is this going to be replacing salary in a future so no it would it just to quickly answer that question you can set a like I forget where where you can do it but you can there is a way I know to I I would have to look into it a little bit more but you can set someone like base so so you can say that like you can fund a vault and then you can say one person is automatically getting a th000 usdc out of this and then the everything that’s left over that’s not
(1:03:37) promised to someone it goes to that is subject to like the allocation of the the coordinate BR so you can set so you can use this system to set a work stream give core team members a a guaranteed salary and then also an incentive on top of the guaranteed salary and and I would say like we should probably establish eventually the the like the standard that like someone who’s getting a guaranteed salary maybe like can allocate but but recuses themsel from receiving give and around I mean I think that’s on an individual but like I know
(1:04:11) for instance like if I if I was doing around like that and I was getting a guaranteed salary I would probably recuse recuse myself from getting like the the on top stuff and leave that to people who were like cuz this allow one of the things this allows is allows someone to like come in and be valuable and not have a guaranteed salary but then get paid for their work based on just the recognition of their value again as John was saying in the very meritocratic way okay so the system is very flexible then you can you can
(1:04:40) Implement all sorts of remuneration strategies you you like right and so that that would be basically how how how salaries are decided in a in a dow yep yes yeah yeah that’s that that’s exactly what I was saying earlier it’s like that’s the the the the reason why I like and I’m pushing for coordinates so much is that it gives us a path to like actually do workstream governance in in a way that that is governed by a doubt yeah yeah and and and flexible enough to allow to accommodate outside
(1:05:16) third parties external contractors and such right mhm yep H interesting all right well sor got to go yeah I think we got to wrap I mean we say an hour we got to try to stick to our time most are leaving so I I think we we got to going we got it going so may will be catchup month and of course some calls and discussions and then we’ll we kind of get back on we’ll get on track into June formally with more current now time okay awesome thanks both sounds good thanks thanks for the taking time y’all thanks everybody yeah
(1:05:52) have a great weekend cheers [Music] hey [Music]