The Loadpipe Community Town Hall 14 focused on enhancing momentum and participation in their tokenomics system, emphasizing the need for consistent practices to reduce resistance. Key discussions included deciding on team structures, their roles, and how to allocate tokens fairly based on contributions. The team reflected on their journey and emphasized the urgency of completing token distributions, proposing immediate actions to engage members. They acknowledged challenges in governance participation, likening it to student government, and stressed the importance of making participation impactful. Plans were made for a significant meeting to discuss contributions, set up decision-making channels, and establish a decentralized governance structure to ensure long-term success.

Loadpipe Community Town Hall 14: Tokenomics 12

Transcript:
(00:02) Alex is here but I DM J David and Andress so and James I let those three know so I wrote out a bit of an agenda and this idea of goals and I’m sharing my screen now just looking at the the figma that we that the general tokenomics figma and the first thing I wanted to talk about was just like the idea of momentum right and that it’s something that has to be built and I think that there is a lot of push back with using a system like this because it’s just not as predictable to say how much individually you will get
(00:48) of any specific distribution when you use a system like this that relies on your that relies on interpersonal communication that relies on relationships and that relies on perceived value and I think that there’s a couple of way one thing that will reduce the resistance to this sort of idea is one just beginning getting getting rituals instantiated getting a momentum moving in the right direction and seeing that a system like this is it’s possible to distribute tokens at all through something like this and to
(01:21) continually do it right rather than the sort of retroactive rounds that we’re dealing with right now to familiarize ourselves with coordinate so that we can do this over the long term and so like with that in mind I the goal I would like for this meeting is one to decide on the number of teams that we would have for concurrent roles what those teams what how those teams would be con constituted to continue to discuss what the relative weights of those teams will be as we continue to move forward and then figuring out just
(01:51) like whose responsibility is it to get everyone to vote and like how how do we motivate better participation and make sure that these things actually go off as they’re supposed to cuz again motivating momentum has to be someone has to put in the effort to get the the ball rolling on a lot of these things so so like with that in mind let’s take a look at like what has happened so far I don’t think anybody has actually contributed yet nobody’s actually allocated their give um and I think maybe that’s something that we should
(02:25) start doing in the in the short term some people have written what they perceive of as their own contributions and then we’ve also had last Friday a retroactive round where I mean sorry a a retrospective where we looked back and and thought about the timeline of what was going on at the time from when this idea formed to when it was actually formed as as a company and so we have some writeups here not everyone has written these things up and so yeah Mike how how has contacting the all the people on this circle gone so far yeah
(03:03) I’ve been reaching out to like Nick and Sheena that are not as active right now I yeah I I have to push a little bit more I think Shea was on vacation last week she said and she got back this weekend I’m actually actually trying to also engage her to help us with some UI so she’s waiting to get back to me I’m waiting for her to get back to me on that but I I just feel like maybe I got to give them an example but I made videos for them last time I also have to hit up Carlos I haven’t done that yet
(03:32) but I just feel like it’s it’s so far away that a lot of that’s like five six seven months ago now so that um I guess I have to reassure them this will be the last time they’ll have to do it yeah I feel cuz maybe they they have done it before or something like that yeah fair enough all right so we just need to continue to to pester everyone to to get those in and I guess maybe we just like give the example of doing it by the way it’s the the contribution is set to a thousand sorry just just a thought on this I
(04:09) think we should set a deadline for how much time we want to devote to this because we can we can reach out and test to them but until we we can’t we we can only them the end of the opportunity but honestly I think I think Mike is also spending a lot of time on this so so I think let’s set the cut off at end of the month right I think it is the end of the month 31st yeah and Mike to that point maybe maybe keep it to a few more outreaches and and then let that be it right okay yeah maybe I’ll I’ll put a little bit
(04:40) more urgency on it or importance to it or yeah yeah I mean that sounds reasonable right like maybe yeah maybe even just like crafting an announcement I mean and then sending that and I can craft an announcement and just be like hey this is this is the last time we’re going to be able to you’ll be able to give people will still be able to receive I mean that’s almost why I’m waiting to give because I I I don’t want to say I think I told Alex but I was kind of maybe get to adjust based on the participation now
(05:12) but maybe that’s not fair but yeah I don’t know yeah I mean I think I think that that’s like I don’t think we should treat it as like a punitive process right I think I I would say just be honest with your own assessment of like how valuable you thought people’s contributions were in that period and we had a lot of time I think to I I don’t know if we want to set up another time to just discuss that period and what had gone on during that period yeah I mean I think the next the next thing is just to
(05:42) do that again but for early Hamza Bo one one quick question is there a way to Port the previous votes that we made on the other organization and just support them here on this Epoch because it’s the same Epoch and the same basically the same I think you manually yeah I think you do have to probably do it manually okay uh I don’t think you’d be able to to xute go ahead oh sorry oh yeah finish what you’re saying I have a suggestion no go ahead when you’re done a suggestion for like helping everyone
(06:24) to we encouraging people to participate we could have the rounds and the voting and the contributions and everything done in one meeting where we all do it together everyone’s there at one time and we just say hey now is the time to do this so so now do it it would actually be optional for everyone to do it in that meeting but I feel like it would kind of get people who wouldn’t other who would otherwise put it off and not do it go ahead and do it like hey you’re in this meeting now now is the time to do it
(06:55) it’s like we’re all in study hall just now do it if you have questions ask if you have discussion discuss and start typing and start voting what do you think no I mean that’s a nice idea a great idea I like that the problem would be getting all the people on the meeting but at least exactly well but like I mean I think it’s the same thing right is like we craft sort of a because either way right we’re going to have to craft some form of communication that says hey everybody get on this meeting we’re going to fill
(07:26) it out all at the same time obviously people that are still like in the organization it’s going to be a lot easier than it would be otherwise but we say hey this is this is the time that we’re going to get together we’re going to do it and this is a mandatory meeting if you’re with us right or as as mandatory as possible right and and then we just say look if you can’t make the meeting or if you can’t do it then enter it by the 34 or that’s that one question what would happen if someone does not
(07:55) attend the meetings and does not vote what what happens then nothing they get they get allocated whatever it is that they’ve been whatever percentage of the Total distribution gets allocated and they didn’t vote and that’s so like their what what percentage they would have contributed or how it would have changed the relative just distribution just doesn’t matter anymore okay yeah so I think I don’t know the idea is this is common though to be honest this is not uncommon in governance I think Bo might
(08:28) notice the most right the turnout rates but I also think it’s because we this has been 6 seven months in the in the in in the past so I think those are the two two reasons but it’s a good lesson for us in general with governance I I believe this is common even when I work in student government in in college and it’s the same right like governance getting participation in governance is very hard people want freedom people want have their say but actually to actually get them to actually participate is is a
(08:59) second is a different story right I mean and I also think that like participation is a lot easier to motivate when there’s a direct impact on on people in general right and so I think this feels like the incentive for someone who is no longer in the organization to come and spend time allocating giving percentages of like tokens of a token distribution to other people maybe doesn’t make a ton of sense right which is why these systems are meant to be done like in in constant time right like it it should be like it’s done best not as
(09:44) a retroactive allocation and best but but rather best as a continual distribution of what we allocate because then again everything is like sort of fresh in your mind people who are involved are have every incentive to be involved in the governance process because there’s a direct effect on them and so yeah I mean I think I think this is a really annoying both of these like this and the early Foundation rounds are going to be really annoying because there’s just less incentive and less impact even though in theory it’s like
(10:19) we’re we’re Distributing a larger probably percentage of a team token allocation through them and I don’t know maybe maybe that’s just not been communicated clearly enough but again it runs into the same problem of I think just there’s there’s sort of a lack of motivation if especially if you’re no longer involved because notice in the last round everybody who’s still with Hamza voted yep and and people who didn’t didn’t yeah you guys want to talk about what different people did during the
(10:50) during the like this round that we’re doing or do you want to save that for the meeting that we just discussed where we would all kind of study hall together and do it so I just want to ask like what did person X do what did person y do and I know that everyone knows I would like to know we need to like refresh each other’s memories going to do that now or should we save that for that meeting that we discussed I mean yeah I mean I think we wrote it out and just sort of did it with everybody here except Jose but yeah
(11:25) so who is an paralleled and what did she do yeah I mean go down a list an example question so an an is a general manager at shadowstone and she was not too involved more than just kind of helping coordinate some of the team but I I guess that’s the another question Bose how broad how wide do we go with the net of people is involved so everybody on here did something I assume everyone on here did had some contribution of course some some very minuscule and some major but yeah yeah I just want yeah I just want
(12:07) to clarify make sure that I understand Mike can you briefly clarify what Shad stone is and and how is it related to hamsa and sure I don’t mind and the other yeah I mean Shad stone.com is the website it’s a marketing agency most in Hong Kong but the majority of the team is in the Philippines that does a website design and and markeet marketing and SEO and e-commerce services so the a lot of the content being posted this recording is being done by Alvin on the shed Stone team and posted by Stephanie and then Manley is operating a
(12:46) web web part so it’s basically it admin web content agency okay and so yeah what would Ann have helped with yeah I mean she’s very Bor maybe but she was she was making sure Kim was in in participating um she was keeping manly involved I was just trying to be more inclusive than exclusive but I mean very minor involvement but we could REM remove her if if if if you’d like I was trying to do that to just get her engaged in more in the process oh cool dick did a lot during that round correct but also he was paid
(13:32) for it yeah I know yeah I mean that’s another point to make like that’s also a consideration yeah yeah I don’t know how we weigh that in or if that is weighed well what do you say I mean how do some people people should put their compensation maybe people should put their compensation in their I mean it’s up to everyone what they want to put I guess but you know if someone if someone did job X and received no compensation versus someone did this contribution but was massively compensated for it that
(14:05) might have an effect on people’s decision so people maybe will want to put that might be fair to put that yeah but would that have any bearing on on the on the contribution of someone I mean even if they were paid for it or not this is about discussing the the contribu each individual contribution right so for what I’ve read and I don’t remember if I read this in comments or it was an actual documentation people I mean people can interpret it how they want but some people do interpret it that way I mean I
(14:34) think it’s worth bringing up part of like the weighing process I mean it’s worth bringing up I mean there’s been a few people we’ve been discussing working with our team or or even working with our team that are like renewing contracts that want their tokens like outlined specifically in their conversation where we say no we’re going to use this coordinate and then they feel confused and not really convinced that they’re going to be compensated enough to make up for that difference I
(14:58) think and I don’t know how to really respond to them but but it’s coming up like few times now people really need to enter their contributions but Luciano also did some quite a bit for that yeah yeah I mean he did yeah so pre preh homza he did the he updated the logo the pitch decks he helped with the video the the summit presentation did the demo like the front end or the demo for eth Global Carlos I can’t remember that guy Carlos yeah he’s not here Carlos has he’s the hardest to get through
(15:39) toj oh is he oh that’s he never renamed himself so they they loged he’s only I got him to log in once and then and then since I asked him rename he didn’t respond to that I mean I’m talking about a telegram he’s not been responsive he did originally connect and then I told him can you please rename it so we know who you are can vote for you and I I don’t all if someone is totally unresponsive I might just start to assume that they don’t care about this and they don’t want the token and I’m
(16:11) not trying to be greedy or mean that’s that’s what I said earlier don’t want the token it’s like taken away from people who do that’s what I was that’s what I was wait and see who responds yeah that’s that’s what I’m doing finalize this that’s what I’m doing CU I would like to give I would like to give Carlos some because he was helpful during that time I know he got paid I don’t think he got paid a lot maybe I’m wrong about that please help me if you remember but if he just doesn’t want it
(16:38) he’s not even going to know if he receives it then it’s just a waste to give it to him and give it to someone who actually wants it I’m trying a different I’m trying my memory on on who is cjr is that cardos is that the cardos you’re talking about yeah I I literally just sent him a telegram saying I’m going to try like this Carlos do you want to receive token reward question mark see if that that if that gets a response because I’m looking at my my thread I sent him a video tutorial I
(17:10) sent him a YouTube link to the general one from there I sent him a video recording of our session Luciano yeah sorry we know Luciano is interested correct yes I think that might be more on me I did meet him even in person a week ago but I I didn’t specifically remind him about this but I wish there was some better way to actually broadcast a message is there any broadcast message I guess it’s just to their wallet right so there’s no broadcasting right that unless they connect their email no okay I I I honestly forgot
(17:45) maybe to remind him about redoing this but yeah but he’s definitely interested he sent a proposal to me uh on Sunday a couple two days ago for for helping on the on the screens I I think it’s more on me to remind him or again we we’re just getting off track cuz we we we we messed we didn’t we’re catching up we all know this it’s going to be it’s going to be a little bit of a burden for this time but once we get this momentum like both started we got just get momentum once we get over this hump of this these old
(18:19) ones I will spend more time to poke these people yeah yeah I mean the alternative is that we go through and you know we have to like retroactively negotiate an individual contribution or like an individual percentage allocation for everyone and and then we’re just like sort of making executive decisions about who how much each person gets and we can do that right but it I I think this might be an easier process even if it is a little Annoying what does it mean to Mark someone as a collaborator yeah so it means that you
(18:56) work directly with that person okay okay okay so in an Ideal World when again when these things are current what you should the way it should be working is that you’re allocating to the people that you work directly with right it’s not like how much and this is sort of in the documentation and we we can have another meeting about this when we get to like a current round but the idea is that people are like keeping track of the things that they’re doing writing sort of overviews of the work that’s
(19:29) being being done and then the people that are rewarding them are not that you you shouldn’t be rewarding someone based on like their perceived contribution or anything like that but but specifically like how much did they collaborate and and help you and and how valuable do you think that that those direct contributions were how much did you see directly right and and that again that that allows things to open up a little bit more so that you can have things like Bounty boards where someone can come along and be a contributor and then
(20:02) leave again right and people can say wow that contribution was really really valuable but people aren’t just awarding the the people with the most like Social Capital right so yeah we got into this discussion a little bit more of so what what are the next steps we got to reach out to the rest of the preh homs of people at least once I think maybe next Tuesday should be our our meeting our big like hey this is when we’re going through and we’re voting ask any questions you have about people’s
(20:31) contributions and we should just do that at the end of our regularly scheduled tokenomics voting is any resistance to that idea that’s good sounds great literally messing so what are we what are we agreeing to do at the end of our normally scheduled coordinat that we have a normally scheduled tokenomics meeting next Tuesday and that at the end of that normally scheduled meeting we do what you had suggested which is just so so we communicate with everyone in the interim that next Tuesdays we’re we’re
(21:01) going to get together and that’s going to be the time that we vote and it’s going to be the big meeting of everybody who’s on that Callum we just we just vote at the at the end of that tokenomics call and anybody who’s there can ask any questions they’d like I like time do you think we should have for that 30 minutes yeah 30 minutes sounds right might need extra yeah extra time because it’s the first time maybe later we’ll get more streamlined I went ahead and voted anyway well the votes can you can change your
(21:32) vote up until the end right Bo I haven’t tried but okay yeah that’s true Yeah final until until it ends yeah so the next thing we need to do is begin the early HS around are we ready to do that I am ready I think we should while it’s still fresh in our memory two rounds going at once well so like again this is all in an attempt to get to current right which would be the current round would start on June 1st which would be the first time that we’re running it for a period that is actually just covering the present right
(22:16) everything else is retroactive and so we’ve gone through the process this sort of annoying process of understanding what is necessary to do these retroactive rounds and so starting this early H around I think would mean that that we add the necessary people we make sure to communicate with them which is a lot easier because a lot more of those people are still around but we get a good list of of who all the early comms of people are and then we have another one of the the meetings that everybody that’s subject to it is invited to where
(22:46) we just talk about like well what was happening during that period and then again maybe two weeks on we have that like okay now we’re going to do the vote we’re going to get together ask any questions about what contri people had and so that timeline would look like what’s let’s that would look like here we’re doing our next meeting and then here is when we close early Hamza so preh Hamza would close here early Hamza would close here does this make sense I’m just loading your screen now I’m sorry but
(23:26) when are the dates you’re marking the 20 first would be when we clo I mean like obviously this round doesn’t close until the 31st but we would close the preh Hamza here and then we would close or like we would have the meeting where we’re doing the voting ritual for preh Hamza here and then we would have the meeting where we’re doing the voting ritual for early Hamza here on the 28th and then that sets us up to June 1st open the current round and then we’ll need to establish sort of a a different
(23:57) ritual probably probably where we go through and look at what what has been done just go over what have we accomplished and then again have this sort of voting ritual or at least the time when we all get together and ask questions and everything like that to to to get that process started all right so in that world I would open the round today yeah I would probably leave it open until the 15th of July so that we still we have another month to June June but then we just people to get it over the of the next weeks and now token and
(24:37) then tokenomics is just sort of dominated by that until we get this like token distribution thing figured out just to be clear June not July right sorry yeah June okay no worries it’s just just I mean we did say I thought we would just say we would just do two weeks but I mean we can give them two four weeks but yeah it’s fine okay I mean I’m I’m also down to do it two weeks I kind of like two weeks I thought we were just say end of July we clean up all the old stuff and then we start June like that I mean I think
(25:10) people I think the second the second one should be more active than the first right right right right okay and then yeah that means that like maybe we schedule this Friday if that works for people to do our like retrospective Kai are we calling it Kumbaya yeah yeah another another Kumbaya on Friday Friday be like a new call kumay don’t call it that why not it’s racist it’s it’s actually I did I’m kidding I’m kidding all right I don’t know don’t know what I’m really tired yeah we’re all I’m saying
(25:55) nonsense okay okay let’s keep so then go ahead oh I was just yeah okay so I will I’ll start that I will send out I’ll send out an announcement so I’ll send out an announcement for both of them tonight and then Mike VI and mind just like I think you could probably just send it straight on to to everybody who’s not in the Discord yep it’s on my list in the morning yeah okay okay yeah yeah perfect and then yeah so I’ll send and I’ll send them out separately one alert for the preh Hamza and then one alert for the
(26:32) early Hamza okay perfect okay and then because other people it might be an opportunity I would say to re-engage some people who we’ve lost along the way people like Laura Lee Nina know who else would they be part of the round though they could get give I mean they they contributed like they were sitting in on some of these early tokenomics meetings and even again maybe like I it’s an opportunity to sort of re-engage and just be like hey like we you you helped us you put in some work like if you want some some portion of
(27:08) that token distribution that we’re doing you’re invited and yeah maybe even because like yeah like there should be a portion that’s also given to people who sign we’ve always said there was going to be like airdrops and things like that for for people who signed up to the Hamza WordPress site yep and we have a list wallet address yeah and so maybe we just create a category in that in that one I I mean I don’t know maybe we need to discuss this a little bit more but that’ll be but yeah I mean certainly at least like
(27:38) Laura Le Nina are the first names that come to mind in terms of people that that it might be opportunity to re-engage yeah I agree I did I have been keeping Nino up to dat we we had some voice exchanges last week Laura Le told me Summer she would be able to get more act potentially get more active again she’s studying hard right now she tells me okay because yeah some of those I I think especially Laura Lee I mean like we know would be great at doing a little bit of community building stuff yeah so anyway but yeah either way we’ll draft
(28:14) those and then get those out to the people and then yeah so the next thing we need to talk about is just like the number of teams and and so like I don’t expect us to decide on again this relative distribution of tokens going to individual teams in what becomes our current rounds but after my conversation with David yesterday like I I am thinking that maybe like legal and accounting should be departments in and of themselves because I think that would go along like that is a backwards way of allowing David to get a sort of
(28:53) guaranteed distribution guaranteed token distribution and Andre as well because I also I I tend to agree with David’s point and and I think this is true of andr as well that when they do their jobs well it very like the rest of the organization doesn’t shouldn’t notice that they’re doing their jobs well right like if they’re doing their jobs very well then like generally no one should know that they’re working at all or might see them as an annoyance right especially in the case of David where
(29:26) he’s going to be annoying people for invoices and asking for explanations and telling people no when they’re going over budget and things like that that’s his job and and that’s his like concern is that that would adversely affect like the value people see in his work and and similarly with with Andre right like if he’s the one doing like legal compliance stuff generally it’s behind the behind the scenes it doesn’t really easily fit within like Business Development or engineering and he is often going to be
(29:57) an annoyance to people telling people know or we can’t do this or or we have to there are certain requirements that that need to be met and and so that’s that’s s of how my thinking is involved also it leads pretty naturally into what you were saying a little bit earlier Mike and what our like Constitution has set up to do which is to empower a team member with like a budget and create an department and give them a budget and then allow them sort of discretion to spend from that budget yeah without
(30:24) having to go to a larger governing Council for for vote for right and so you create a department you give that department a budget you allocate guaranteed salaries within the the department and then a token distribution that goes on top of that or even a cash distribution that goes on top of that using a system like coordinate and it maybe solves a couple of our governance headaches but anyway I guess that that that was a lot to say but that that’s my sort of current thinking and I wonder what you all think I’m I I I know it’s a
(30:56) lot but I I’m on the same the same page so then just to be clear there’ll be some fixed amount then that would be allocated to that department to be distributed between the people in that department of token or give there’s always there’s always a fixed amount that’s that’s distributed to a circle right and we decide what the relative distribution is right so like if if for instance and and this is just like throwing a number out there right like say the distribution is one to one between Business Development and
(31:31) Engineering to 0. 25.25 to accounting and legal right especially given that they are sort of just their own departments when you think about the engineering team the engineering team currently would be like three to four people and so a 0.1 distribution point or like a one distribution distributed evenly would probably go like around 33 someone would probably get the majority of that distribution but in equal parts would get probably a little bit more than Point a025 distribution if we wait it that way right at least yeah that’s one
(32:10) way but yeah it would it would be a functional way of giving a guaranteed distribution in particular to David but also to andrees that we would wait relative smaller relative to I think the larger teams The Proposal is to make legal and finance their own teams is that all there is to it or is there also something about allocations well I mean there’s again I was just giving an example of allocations because I don’t think that we’ve decided on what we want the relative allocations to be but yeah that’s that’s functionally that that is
(32:51) functionally the proposal The Proposal is to make those even though they’re only one person departments their own well they could grow right the idea being that they would expand right yeah as as the company Grows Right like accounting and legal with both the Departments that expand right now there there’s only one person on either of them but they the idea is they would expand in the future if I understood correctly the the initial distribution would be somehow based on the number of people in in each team the initial
(33:25) distribution I think would I I’m cons I mean like in reality right we’re conceiving of it in on the basis of like people in a team but but just because like we know we know how many people on each team what yeah I think we that’s another thing we could discuss we haven’t fully decided we started discussing then finish I think to answer it more clearly J so a department has the tokens it’s distributed but if there’s only one person in that department they will get all of that amount which would
(34:01) be Andress and legal and David and finance and that’s because they feel like they might not be voted because their contributions yeah any go ahead John there’s a loophole though because they can’t give give to themselves but they’re the only one on the team so therefore they each get zero a loophole that is true yeah we need a special case then in that if for one person teams I mean in that world it would have to be yeah it would be like I would probably just go be in both of those teams and I would Rec recuse
(34:40) myself from receiving any give and then I would just give the entirety of the give to them actually two person teams have a similar loophole where maybe they do where one must give all their give to the other one and then the other one must give all their so they each end up with 50% I think that’s an edge case we don’t need to worry about though yeah I I tend to agree I’m sure there’s a way around that but I think these are more meant for larger teams with more than one or two people I I believe yeah it’s meant to be that way
(35:13) but in some cases we might have it we might have one person teams or two person teams practice it is defit 10 and 50 or something like that yeah in truth the the like the one person team in terms of a proposal like they would just like a proposal of the Dow would just be to send money and it would fund a vault right so like the decision like the actual like onchain transaction would just be a send to a vault right and so in that world we would just send it directly to whoever that like one person team is sorry I’m a bit lost here
(35:53) is is okay so how does this work in practice you have you have EO and within each Epoch you have a team right and those those team and epochs are separate so so every person votes on a team and an Epoch right every person on a team votes in an Epoch so like so a a circle a circle is a team and then there is a period of time which is an Epoch and that Epoch has a vault and so the vault where the money is kept the people in the circle vote during the epoch to distribute the money from the vault which is in that
(36:36) EPO okay so so the problem John was saying is that you basically have a a one person Circle and and that person can’t give to themselves yeah it’s not a real problem though it’s not we can we can get around that it’s it was half of like a joke well is is there a way on coordinate to to add people to a cir that can’t receive give that can only give give I think what Bo is saying he’ll join those and he’ll he’ll not accept in but I think we’re getting yeah I mean I would theoretically I mean I I don’t
(37:11) think we like I don’t think that will ever happen because again like the The Proposal the only thing the Dow proposal cares about is that there’s an address to send something to and in the world where it’s a onep person team we don’t even have to go through the the rig rooll of setting up up a a coordinate round or anything like that we we would just pay an account directly yep yeah but the idea is to get to get some somehow votes from all the other organization members on that on that right yeah I mean like it it begs
(37:47) this like earlier question and I was thinking about this a bit today of this idea of like because the thing we keep on running up against is like how do we decide what the relative distribution of the teams are and how like so CU you’re right it doesn’t if there’s a one person team then the the distribution Circle doesn’t matter as much what matters is what’s the decision-making process to assign them any distribution of token in the first place and I forget who I I think it might have been John that
(38:21) suggested like or and it might have been you Jose I can’t remember like maybe we do a circle of circles right like where everybody just like gives to how how they think the the distribution of tokens should should be and I don’t know it’s tough because like one we would need to set it up well anyway I don’t want to get into the specifics it’s technically hard to set up but the second is like I don’t I don’t know if that’s just like a like a fair way of making that decision and I
(38:54) don’t know who should make that decision I I would be really open to what people’s opinions are on that like how should we approach that vote well the circle of circles I think it was John’s idea right yeah but the original proposal was is it okay to have one person teams should we like vote on that first or decide that first before we move on before it gets lost and we just never decide it yeah we vote on that I we didn’t we nobody there I don’t know that this is like a voting place I mean again
(39:27) this consensus right this is the question I’m asking right now right because it’s functionally the same question is like who is who are the people that have jurisdiction to make this decision and who gets a vote in that world is it the five of us here what about Andres what about David anybody could have joined this call does James get a vote right like why don’t we decide that right now why don’t we decide a Way Forward on that now before we do anything else because that’ll get in the way of
(40:00) everything that we try to decide afterwards oh wait for it on what on like who has jurisdiction yeah yeah who who has like the initial jurisdiction to make kind of shaping decisions about how we’re going to policy shaping the policy at least to start off with it’s kind of like kindling the fire so somebody has to do it it’s got to be done at some way or else it’ll just never get started so maybe we should start before doing any other decisions just decide who’s going to who’s going to light the kindling and
(40:31) how that’s going to work so you made one suggestion already which in which you said the five of us and let’s see who’s on this call now well I mean could we do something like that I mean those that are actively participating in these sessions would have more say no right we could yeah we could we could say that the the four Foundation members or is it five five or four Foundation members it’s four right yeah four start it off and make the initial decision of who’s in that inner circle as far as coordinate is concerned
(41:12) and then expand it from there somebody’s got to start it it’s going to have to it has to have some centralized start it’s not going to start itself so yeah I mean we have right like we have four Governors right who theoretically have right like that that’s the like the end of the like if if there’s anybody who’s starting it like it’s it’s the for like we have to do it in a governance vote yeah and I mean I I agree I mean I think that that’s like it’s why we’ve been
(41:41) having the discussion here and in the the governance meetings on Thursdays and It ultimately Falls to us I mean I think the part of the reason why we want to do this is because we don’t want it to just be like cuz it’s not really just us right like in terms of hard power sure but like we it’s still like sort of a social consensus thing I one way to to do it is like let’s finish the retroactive rounds and then like let’s say that sets the the the board for making these sorts of governance
(42:12) decisions how would that in what way would that set the board because then we would understand then we would understand I mean like it would be it would be I think fairly simple at that point like we could spin up a token contract hand out the tokens in the relative distribution that we arrive at after the preh Hamza and early Hamza and then start snapshot voting and then it would just it would not be just the four Governors I mean certainly it would have it wouldn’t have like governance power yeah I mean does
(42:42) that make sense yeah yeah yeah and some of the first decisions that need to be made are at least among the first decisions I guess is how to distribute how to decide the relative apption of each team going forward right so that like preh homs are early V yeah I mean yeah again it gets gets to this this question again is like is is a better way for everyone to just submit like what they think the distribution should be and then just run an average of it or is it like do we put does someone put forward a proposal and then
(43:25) we just wait for a consensus on on which distribution makes the most sense for me the distribution that makes the most sense right now is the one proportional to the number of team members in each circle yeah that seems like the the fairest one to start off with it sounds it can be adjusted by I don’t know it sounds it still sounds like communism though I mean no offense but yeah we’re just start it just to start off on an equal playing field and then it can change from there democratically not communistic but like
(43:59) where do you start it off assume everybody’s equal it make start with that assumption and then that things go given that we have no prior information Mike I think that would be the way go yeah that’s fair that’s fair the only other the only other Fair way to start would be by a circle of circles or maybe just an informal vote that simulates a circle of circles so those are those are like two Fair options I don’t know if they’re really really are any others it’s interesting because I mean like so in in a world
(44:34) where we well because because there is one problem with like doing it by person size of team is if we do it that way then the people in single person teams if we ultimately decide that we’re going to do it like that will always get one and then people in larger teams could get more than one and could get less less than one right like one one share not not necessarily vot because you can have voting sessions on on on circles I mean you have only one person in the circle receiving right but the persons giving in the circle who do not receive
(45:14) they can give variable amounts of of give tokens and that that would I see what you’re saying well I I think the so like the reason why we would do multiple circles for multiple teams is because not everybody is like aware of of what cross team work is going on right so like people in in like the marketing department don’t have to really care about what Andres or D are doing like they just the accounting and legal departments are just doing their own thing right and so if we decide that like each person gets the the way to
(45:48) allocate the relative number of tokens is like the the business develop team has five people so they get 500 tokens right and the development team has three people so they get 300 tokens and then the the accounting team only has one person so they only get 100 tokens but then in that world David is guaranteed to get 100 tokens whereas someone in the bizde team could get 200 and two people could get 50 right and so I I don’t know that that’s necessarily not necessarily Bo because you see when people that when
(46:25) you have people in teams that do not receive but they give they they can give variable amounts of tokens so say suppose we’re we’re voting on on the on the accounting team allocation right and we all vote but we don’t get any tokens right so I I vote to give of myund give tokens I vote to give I don’t know 14 to David I’m just saying some crazy numbers here yeah and Mike votes to give 89 tokens and and you V you you vote to give a 56 right so that that has some number out of the total number of tokens
(46:59) that person can receive from all of us they got x amount of tokens is is that I mean is is that well I I don’t think because nobody else would be voting on on David’s tokens right because he’s the only one in his Circle you you would only ever vote an allocate give to someone in your team or Circle yeah but you could also have people voting outside of their circles for what they perceive as a contribution of someone else’s work no no no I don’t no so if I mean I see what you’re saying that like but but
(47:44) then we would just have to have one like Global Circle and yeah I I just I it wouldn’t it wouldn’t quite work the same way still the the evaluation the assessment each each organization makes is organization wide and they should have some some Voice or vote in in all the other departments in the organization right well so so I think we’re we’re like can I think this might be a confusion of terms because like what you get rewarded are the governance token but but and as a result of like a give allocation
(48:24) within a circle but that government token that you give yes then gives you power to make higher level meta decisions maybe but but that’s a different proposal type so so that’s what like that’s what John just wrote up there in the chat right is like we’ve like a circle is a small level decision of how to allocate like funds within that have been allocated to a team but the still we have not solved like how do we decide how much token is given to each individual team right which should be subject to the tokens that people
(49:03) receive from this process right so it is it is that circular can I can I ask is is there any templates or any kind of structure that coordinate get I’m sure we’re not the first team to discuss it I feel like we’re innovating too much for is there any kind of structure that coordinate can provide us like couple choices or templates um so like they all have their own like governance systems right and and basically it’s like it is what we have discussed in the past but but again like the difference between what we’re like
(49:41) we’re using it in a non-standard way using it to allocate a a an initial set of like pre-launch tokens is not it’s like intended use case it’s an intended use case is like you have a governance system and that governance system outputs work streams right it work out outputs like a a department and then you can send money to the Vault and distribute money through the Vault that way and so like the decision-making process of like how do you arrive at establishing a work stream yeah that’s like any dowo model that already exists
(50:17) right but how do we distribute the power to jump start that system that that’s the Innovation we have to we have to do and there there are Dow models right there’s there’s ways to arrive at those decisions and I think a lot of that it’s it’s why this bleeds into tokenomics in my mind right because this is ultimately a governance question I mean should we try should we try some kind of Discord channel for vote for like I I know we have one I don’t think the many can see that we have a private
(50:47) one for the foundation but maybe we have something more Community Based for collecting votes or feedback on this a couple of different options I mean I think that’s good ex exercise or even the announcements channel for a certain amount of time or I mean we should have some maybe more broader way to gauge maybe it’s not a VOE or at least some way to gauge people’s opinion yeah I think John left he had a call at the top of the hour so I think you he did but no I mean I like this idea and and I mean I don’t know it’s
(51:28) like I said a little bit earlier right like once we start Distributing tokens then we can start doing things like snapshot votes and so once we get done with like a preh Hamza and an early Hamza thing even if those are symbolic we can still like at that point the governing Council sort of turns into a veto mechanism right and but then I think yeah we just have to do a little bit more work on what that governance structure looks like all right yeah okay so so I’ll have to review the the recording of this meeting but I understand that the the
(52:04) the idea of these these coordinate this coordinate mechanism is not only to award people some sort of equity of the organization but to to give them governance power as well I mean I mean you’re trying to do yeah we’re trying to make a distributed decision-making team we don’t want it to be like traditional company we want us to be a community and yeah like decentralized decision-making company which is actually pretty hard but yeah yeah it is but so so if I understand correctly the the equity token you get is the same governance
(52:48) token governance power token you get let’s just I just want don’t call it Equity please for for all of our okay okay well well whatever it is it’s it’s well whatever it’s I can’t say that either it has to have some definition it’s a governance to it’s a membership membership a distribution of our governance token membership membership is a better way membership okay okay but yeah technically Equity is regulated and all that and regular actually this is a a voting and there’s
(53:24) other utility of it that would be a Sal and to and for the judging but it’s a way to reward and compensate those contributing to the community and the development so let’s call it contribution compensation is that fair enough I don’t I don’t know about you have an opinion I don’t think I I mean like it it is it is I guess partially compensation it’s it’s an incentive that we’re giving out but the incentive is yeah a reward for contribution yeah I mean and then it has it is a token with
(54:03) its own utility right in in a lot of different ways among which is governance right I mean I guess it’s just like yeah it’s it’s a lot of like way to dance around the idea that yeah this this token is power within the system power to do a lot of different things and we’re trying to figure out how to jump start the system by Distributing that power yep thanks for having all the patience with this B I know it’s it’s a lot and we all we talking Theory right I think one of my my excitement points is that once we
(54:35) have this actually tested out just try and trial run it we’re going to iterate it again so I’m I’m looking forward to just test it out honestly and and see how people react into the system but but listen guys I have to run yeah I think we got to wrap yeah yeah no thanks Alex especially when you’re on the road I appreciate your participation um of course of course this is this is moving in the right direction I see how this first round goes man quite excited but I’ll catch up with you two on the
(55:05) sideline yep yep we’ll talk soon but the point is this just harder this is hard this is the easy way is like yeah there’s the the the the boss and or or a group of bosses that makes the decisions for everybody and everybody asks them actually a lot of crypto is that actually it’s kind of embarrassing for crypto in my opinion but but we’re trying to have where the community is is participating in aware as transparent as we can possibly be well in the meantime it’s natural that all the most of the tokens should
(55:38) flow to you guys because you’re you’re the guys kindling the kindling the the fire yeah the idea is look I mean yeah go ahead bro well I was just going to say it’s like yeah and I mean I think we already have like a fair amount of power in the system and yeah I mean I don’t know yeah well there’s also meant to be we want new people to enter the system in in a year from now that didn’t hear it’s probably a lot of people haven’t heard about ham or low pipe at all we haven’t really pushed it so hard so we
(56:12) want those new people to be able to be incentivized a year and two years from now right agreed all right so where are we at at this point I guess do we want to try to have some kind of voting in in more in a Discord Channel somewhere or or or something for that that I guess the question is how do we distribute the give to those different circles right for the third cohort starting in June is that yeah how about before voting you you allow people to to submit their proposals on what to vote on and then after that we vote on it okay yeah let’s
(56:54) let’s start establishing this this wider governance structure I’m I’m down okay great and then yeah Mike let’s let’s talk about what it means to set up those channels okay great yeah okay awesome we’ll do that this week okay all right all right see you guys thanks for your time everybody all right [Music] me