Loadpipe Community Town Hall 15: Tokenomics 13


  • The first retroactive voting round for 2023 is ongoing, with most members having voted. Specific members like Alex and Andre have yet to vote, and the distribution of votes is visible to all.
  • The second voting round has opened, covering the period from January 27th to May 30th. Invites have been sent, and there are plans for a session to discuss contributions during this period.
  • There is a discussion on the creation and allocation of teams, including the importance of recognizing governance work and setting initial team weights fairly.
  • Proposals include preventing team members from voting for their own teams to ensure fairer distribution of votes and considering weighted voting based on team size or contribution.
  • A consensus on governance structure is emerging, with ideas such as using a bicameral approach to balance individual and team votes, and setting up a system for regular review and adjustment as the organization grows.

Chat History:

jlaurentum — Today at 8:05 PM

Good morning guys. How do I know who has voted and how many tokens each team member has received? I am not seeing your screen, Beau. Maybe it’s because I’m not admin?

Yes. I think it’s because I’m not an admin

jlaurentum — Today at 8:17 PM

I like that idea of a period of time for the validity of relative allocation (distribution)

6 months?


Michelini — Today at 8:17 PM

3 months like too

jlaurentum — Today at 8:19 PM

I am trying to write these

Michelini — Today at 8:19 PM




Blog – map.loadpipe.com




Loadpipe Community Town Hall 14: Tokenomics 12 – map.loadpipe.com

The Loadpipe Community Town Hall 14 focused on enhancing momentum and participation in their tokenomics system, emphasizing the need for consistent practices to reduce resistance. Key discussions included deciding on team structures, their roles, and how to allocate tokens fairly based on contributions. The team reflected on their journey and em…

Loadpipe Community Town Hall 14: Tokenomics 12 – map.loadpipe.com

Luciano Drehmer — Today at 8:21 PM

great, i believe passing this on Ai summarizer and ask for main bullet points will work

Michelini — Today at 8:22 PM

will ask Alvin

jlaurentum — Today at 8:22 PM

JK’s proposal – contributions for each round should not be required every month, but in at most 3 months? 

David’s proposal – define responsiblities and scope of each team

For my part, I like the proposed teams

May I suggest each team member post here on the chat their approval or objection on the team configuration proposal?

I think HR is more in the Biz Dev team., until eventually it becomes its own team. Governance I would leave to the sort of things we are discussing here – tokenomics

jlaurentum — Today at 8:31 PM

Beau- how are you planning on aggregating each individual allocation on that survey?

jlaurentum — Today at 8:54 PM

How about this: distribution A is uniform distribution: equal weight for each team. Distribution B is distribution of team weight based on number of team members….

Distribution C is a mixture of Distributions A and B (average?)



(00:02) we got a we got a good group going and I I feel like we’re at a we’re at a good place to start and in the spirit of getting to the point I have a bit of an outline here for what I expect us to talk about and discuss tonight and it’s like and I’ll I’ll share if you can see I’m sharing my screen I’m sharing both the like outline but also we’ll be doing stuff some stuff over here in Corde and I have a little survey for us later so first where are we what still needs to be decided the retroactive round first
(00:34) retroactive round covering all of 2023 has begun or sorry is is still in full swing and in fact most people have voted so I believe everybody can see this view but like if you look at the the members you can see who has and has not voted so a little bit of shame to Alex and Andre for not having voted although I know that they were going to wait until they saw levels of participation an has not voted Carlos has not voted but but John Jose Kim Luciano Mike all voted so we’re still waiting on these people to vote
(01:08) but I mean who knows if they ultimately will either way you can start to see the distribution of who has gotten various amounts up until this point right and so this is covering the pre-foundation era and you can see it mapped out here including with like contributions who’s given to who so on and so forth with a little bit of waiting in the the thickness of the of the band but anyway that’s going well at the end of this call we can answer any lingering questions that people have about the round about people’s contributions to
(01:41) the round if they’re still wondering how to Value other people’s contributions and we can go through all of that but that’s that seems fine also the the second round has opened so I have if you see here I’ve opened round two I’ve sent out the invitation to laureline Nina Garo and I if you guys have any more ideas for who should be included I can give you the the sharing link and you can send it directly to them but basically anybody who was around for the January 27th to May 30th period again we’ll like
(02:20) sort of come back to this because we need to set up a a Kumbaya session where we talk where we sort of like reminisce about what was going on during that period what we were all doing during that period and because I think we had like set it up for Last Friday but then I I at least forgot I think everybody else might have as well but maybe for this Friday next Monday but this round is going to be running from now into it’s open from now until May May 3rd or sorry June 3rd which is not next Tuesday but the
(02:51) Tuesday after and so I set it up like that so that we can have we can close it post this meeting two weeks from now Jose says good morning guys how do I know who has voted and how many tokens each team member has received I’m not seeing your screen though yeah it could be I mean like it should be under members if it maybe it’s like limited by whether or not you’re an admin oh I’m sorry this is the wrong Circle maybe it’s limited by whether or not you’re an admin but you should be able to at least see the map but all
(03:20) this data is theoretically public so you can see you can see it here on my screen if you want to take a look at it okay okay well then maybe we’ll have to think about how to make that a little bit more transparent cuz we can like export reports on these sorts of things but either way that’s and and when it closes I’ll I’ll certainly export a report so we can all see I don’t know if it breaks down individual votes but we can also do that theoretically so we’ve talked a little bit about this the next thing
(03:51) that I want to talk about is deciding on what we think the teams so I guess well hold on I I’ll pause here and just ask for any comments or questions that people have about this right now and then after that we can dive into what we need to decide going forward please refresh my memory the very first Epoch that we voted on which is ending J January 27th yes and what are we calling that we’re calling this the number one pre-foundation all of 2023 Circle pre pre Foundation pre preh Hamza is after January 27th early
(04:34) Foundation early Foundation is after January 27th so that’s I I basically the way I’m demarcating it is incorporation like like Panama Foundation right pre-existence of Panama Foundation post existence of Panama foundation so I have something called preh Hamza and then I’m not sure what period it is so that that may be the old in the Hamza the old Hamza organization so so again once once we we left this Hamza organization up right and the preh a circle I understand it’s confusing we we left it up because
(05:14) we wanted people to be able to see what they had written and what they contributed in the last round where we round this or where we ran this but we moved to just a new organization and so that’s that organization is Hamza Labs limited as opposed to Hamza and then yeah you should see the circles or you should at least see two circles now I think because we haven’t decided what other circles need to exist okay so to that point so all of this is covering the period again that that sort of preh homza period the
(05:46) pre-foundation period and then the early Foundation period which takes us up to May 30th in about 9 days and I’ll wait for Luciano’s typing well this is for I received the invitation for coord today but you show earlier that most part of the people or some part of the team distributed all their tokens already so so those are two different circles so I gave you an invite see so you are like this one has started but you’ll notice nobody has distributed anything in this circle yeah so this is this is yeah yeah Al so the one that
(06:29) that the points the the top sorry IED already is the right no no no the one that has distributed already is the well and and again that’s most people have distributed already is the pre foundation so this is again covering the period up until January 27th of this year and then once the foundation actually existed that’s early foundation and that’s that’s the second the circle that you are now now a part of okay okay well I don’t I don’t see that you’ve joined but like yeah but that you have
(07:04) an invite link to okay there there are chos there one you can delete please yeah I I joined with different wallet and then I this happened no I figured so I like I I saw that I had added both to this circle and then I went back to see which one which wallet had voted in the first round and so now yeah just Luciano dreamer not Luciano dreamer so like I I joined this one but I but I deleted this one from the circle appreciate it thank you yeah yeah no problem okay so we’ve got everything covered there then the
(07:42) thing that we really need to talk about is so so that is covering those two sort of early periods and at the end of this meeting we’ll we’ll like maybe walk through some voting and like say show what it looks like in the preh Hamza vote and again answer any questions about that but now let’s let’s shift our Focus to what happens on June 1st right which is ideally when we’ll start a current round that will be running in one month installments instead of having to like think about what we did and like
(08:12) and retroactively award people for what they’ve done instead we’ll just be reporting in real time what we’re doing to the teams that we’re contributing to and then getting the live distributions of the tokens that are allocated to each team and so in order for us to do that we need to decide two things first we need to decide what are the teams and then we need to decide what are the relative distributions to each of those teams and so I’ll I’ll put just start by putting forward a bit of a a proposal so
(08:46) I made this survey and I’ll distribute this survey to everybody in this call and basically it’s like these are the five teams as I think they should be I think that we should have an engineering team a Bev team an accounting team and a legal team the reason these oneperson teams I think should exist is because they’re not well represented in either of these larger teams and their work often goes unnoticed especially if they’re doing that work well and so I think that they should be given a specific and again they one person teams
(09:16) right now we expect them to grow and we can augment what percentage allocation we think that those teams should get and then there is like just the governance work that is done I don’t think we should highly value it but it is work that is being done and I think people’s contribution to it should be rewarded so so this is how I would divide the teams and like now I’ll just like shut up for a minute and does anybody think that the this is wrong that we shouldn’t do it this way should we collapse it should we
(09:44) expand it are there teams I’m not seeing that we need to account for do people have questions but yeah the floor is floor is open is there a lead for each team is there a what a lead or do we just consider I mean like I I assume there will be I think that goes more to like some things we need to establish in the the governance call which would be like how do we establish work streams so like when when we establish budgets I think that that that budget should include a a a team lead or even like a team Council
(10:21) right so like if we’re saying that they but but I don’t know that it matters for for this like token token distribution part right that’s fine I guess it was more in the lines of if anyone if if everybody feels that they can relate to one or more buckets then I think we got align them maybe Define governance more I mean there is some overlap I think in governance between bis Dev Engineering in my mind at least but maybe I’m I’m wrong yeah I mean I I think I I I agree I mean I think governance touches on
(10:58) everything right governance governance is like sort of it’s It’s the thing that makes decisions about like how much should we budget to engineering how much should we budget to bizdev how who should be in charge of this that or the other thing what what is our longterm like strategic goals right and so yeah there’s like a little bit of overlap I think in in probably all of the the the teams and everybody who’s doing governance will be doing other things as well right like everybody who’s in the
(11:31) governance team will also be in one or more of the other teams and but yeah to me it’s just like the the action of like doing governance and management is is distinct from doing something like marketing or doing something like writing code or even like doing like software architecture Bo have you thought about a mechanism for changing team configuration and distribution in the future going forward forward yeah so I think that and and the way that I’m conceptualizing it right now is that like a that this so like
(12:10) what I think we should do is once we settle on the number of teams then we create this survey or like I distribute this survey and we take people’s opinions on what percentage should go to each team right I think then the just the governance the the like partners should also do this and then we should like put forward a proposal and codify the percentages as they go forward but I think that those percentages should cover a period of time so like ideally it’s like we need to figure out how to set this system in motion but it should
(12:47) be like there is a proposal type to change to like add a team to add a work stream for instance or to remove a workstream there should be a proposal type to change the percentage allocation distribution and the assumption would be that in like three-month Epoch if there is no proposal to change things then things continue with the status quo but like a governance action to change things is possible yeah I mean like I’m trying to another thing that I’m working on this I like quarters personally 6 months is possible as well but like I
(13:21) think quarterly reviews make more sense and Ju Just yeah like for better oversight and more accountability but like yeah a lot of the work that I’m doing this week also just concerns the kinds of proposals and how like and the periods of proposals to set in place things like budgets and work streams and and this would be another like another thing like we can arrive at Social consensus over that we can eventually program matize into a dow proposal okay I have one proposal and it goes backwards a little bit to what we
(13:54) talked about before okay I’m wondering if what once per month being that we’re all very busy and we have a lot of responsibilities once per month for Rounds feels like a little often to me month goes very very fast and anything longer than that two months three months but but not longer than 3 months I think would be okay that’s that’s just a thought second thought is we should everything we decide here we should write down because we want to read it over think about it read it over some more did I miss something just like any
(14:32) document or just like any legal agreement we want to have it in writing just so that we can all at least agree on what we all decided agreed is are is anyone writing this I mean I guess I can I mean we do we record this is being recorded and it is posted on the blog and it’s full transcribed but it’s not like it’s full transcriptions of each of these sessions transcription like getting the main points and topics of it that will be like solve this problem I believe yeah especially yeah if we have it recorded and we can pass it through
(15:09) something that does transcription that would be awesome yeah transcription and summarization I think I can handle that now yeah yeah I I have a proposal too if you can go back to these departments and V that you is there any way that we can I assume this just an example of of of what it is right but for example can we get some kind of a description or responsibilities of the different teams here right for example engineering what will be engineering doing right what are the responsibilities what are this kind of
(15:51) stuff so we can better decide because for example I I I will speak about my my my field somehow because I I feel it as a finance department more than an accounting department right it will be accounting it will be compliance it will be administrative work right it will be forecasting and financial planning so I don’t know that can be done before the votes somehow something short I can know what engineering does what development does so we can work with more information yeah and so okay I think that’s a great idea so this
(16:37) again that that sort of ties into a little bit of the work that I’m doing with the like workstream Sops and how to like vote and establish a work stream and and so yeah I mean I think I I should have a model for that on Thursday the and it’s just going to require probably the people who are in charge to to fill out those things like the people who are in charge in each of these departments and to collaborate on on on actually putting forward the proposal but yeah I mean like I think that’s I think that’s great okay so I I what I’m
(17:17) I’m taking away and please correct me if I’m wrong is that we’re not quite ready to to go to a vote we need a little bit more information about about what each team is doing and why they’re important before and we need some time to like review that before we can vote on what we think the relative distribution is so but but can I clarify that I believe we have decided that the can can we at least say that we’ve decided these are the five teams that we initially want to start with yeah how do we how do we make
(17:49) a vote and make consensus I mean I we say like is it like the student council I was it in like do we do we like verbally yeah I me kind of like so there’s so what I would say is like con or like yeah constitutional procedure would be a a ask for unanimous consent right so we would say unanimous consent that these should be the five departments and we don’t have everybody I think Andreas is maybe not here I but I think that’s it but like what ious I think we missing marketing marke say something like no
(18:25) marketing is Mike and Alex like I guess we’re messing like of of everyone on the team basically we’re missing Dawn and Andres and and so like we can we can reach out to them and ask if there’s any like objections but like if I if I say like okay I’m calling for unanimous consent everybody who’s here if there’s an objection then we have to like think about voting and whether or not to vote for it but if it’s if nobody objects then that is passed by unanimous consent okay do we get the gavl what’s
(18:55) the like yeah exactly I I consider that past all we can reach out to to Don and Andreas individually and just ask them if they’re okay with these being the teams without having decided on a relative distribution but yeah okay so so let’s let’s call that ask for objections if there’s no objections then it’s unanimous do I hear any objections is that what we say I think couple things to decide so we need to decide on what the teams are that’s what we’re doing we need to decide on what
(19:28) the initial allegations will be we need to decide how often the vote will be to change those allegations Yep this is the circle of circles well I think that’s the circle of circles Rob that’s why Bo is trying to confirm the first of those yeah I think we’re trying to just confirm the first of that that list yeah yeah just yeah yeah and so it’s like so first how often to change Bel Circle I do want to be to Circle back to this soon because there’s I think there’s a difference so on this like how often to change the
(20:07) distribution I think there’s a difference between how we set the initial distribution and how we change the initial distribution like setting setting is harder than changing changing has a proposal type and like is typ would be forwarded by someone who says like I think this is wrong I think we should change it to this right whereas like setting the initial state right is is a little bit higher harder So to that point and and but before I move on John is there anything I’m missing so we need we we’re sort of decid in consensus on
(20:39) just a number of teams pending I just have a question sorry for making so much where will be where would HR fall in this organization good question will I I think it falls in bis or governance right now because we don’t have a specific person who’s dedicated to HR but I think we would like that would be an example of we would add a team right like if we if we hired an HR person to specifically do that job we would be like okay we’re adding a team with a budget to HR we’re giving them some distribution but right now it’s
(21:20) like HR is is basically governance right HR is to much to the consternation of everybody involved in the governance process right like that it’s just mostly what we concern ourselves with talking and debating okay but good question and I think that yeah I mean I I think that maybe yeah that it’s it’s a good sort of thing because because HR is crosssectional right you have the legal part of the agreement you have the the invoices that receive and the payments that you do every month then you have internal problems between team members
(21:57) right so that’s why I didn’t I was not able to locate it into that section I kind of would L I don’t know I personally vot to put in governance personally but it’s true it doesn’t really fit because it kind of you also put it in management if it was governance yeah I mean I put HR in management governance HR and governance I mean it’s a it’s a good point point though but I don’t think if it’s Finance or legal I think it’s governance out of these five I don’t I don’t think we make another bucket for
(22:39) HR personally I mean yeah I I mean I think we could have eventually right but I mean but I also don’t know I mean a dow might be might be weird about HR because a lot of what we’re doing like I do think for us it fits in governments right although I don’t think cuz it’s like and I think that what an HR department is made up of is just split into a bunch of different places because when we think about like disputes I mean like even disputes and harassment and everything like that I do think a lot of
(23:11) it falls to ultimately governance in a doubt right there’s not really a a good idea of like a team there I don’t I don’t know it’s an interesting question I haven’t I certainly haven’t given it enough thought okay so in terms of the teams are I think Among Us does does that like sort of answer the question enough David no no no no more question sorry sorry okay okay no I mean I just mean that like so can we say these are the five departments and or at least like come to some like sort of soft
(23:42) consensus over it objections heard Okay cool so then like the next step is to to again to reach out directly to Don and Andre make sure they don’t object to this this idea of those being the teams and then we need to figure out like okay how do we arrive at that initial State and I would say yeah something like this this is a constant sum survey that can be distributed to everybody on the team and we can take a look at what the results are and that is can can we agree that that would be a good way to conduct that
(24:17) step I all the while understanding that we before we do that we really need to have a description and responsibilities of the teams everybody needs to do that so they can make an informed decision but once we do that can we agree that this might be a good way to to arrive at that initial State y yes how would this vote work it would just be like a popular vote each vote each person would be able to vote like how what are the mechanics of the vote how can we come to numbers in other words so in in this I believe it just
(24:51) displays an average of all the like respondent questions so to take a preview right and without giving anything away I’m just going to give 20 to each which is not how I would allocate it but just for for argument sake and then yeah I added this one so that like as very yeah very simple very stupid civil resistance wouldn’t people just like tend to vote their own team I mean yeah so David brought this same thing up I think that there are two answers for this right the first is I could construct the survey so that it asks you
(25:36) like what team you are primarily on and then you can only award it to others in in in the like sort of coordinate fashion alternatively I think that it might be fine for us like I think when we’re talking about like large numbers of people we don’t trust that is maybe a good way to like philosophically approach a problem like this but I I am fine I know personally and and and maybe maybe not everybody is but like I am fine personally saying like I trust people to to the small team that we have which we’re talking about like maybe
(26:13) seven to nine people making this making this vote I trust that team to correctly prioritize what needs to be done and and especially after like looking over like what is what is the responsibilities of any particular team and what what do they do why why are they necessary right like I I think people are going to I I I believe that everybody here is smart enough to like prioritize the the team distributions according to what is necessary that would seven to n people seven to nine people will be on the vote what if yeah okay so this is for a
(26:53) small group that we all trust what if we just did it like coordinate but we didn’t actually use coordinate but we did it so that each team has let’s say each team has like each team has like 100 give to allocate to other teams only to other teams and we just trust people to to do it that way I mean like it could be done by probably text message or something like that but we we emulate coordinate it’s kind of a it’s kind of a neat model where you cannot allocate to yourself that all a problem yeah I
(27:30) mean so if we had if we had then it would be five votes right and I guess like the teams could collaborate on like what they thought the vote should be like teams could get together of course also the teams are small and just like decide amongst themselves how much should we give to to Via like that it wouldn’t be it doesn’t solve the problem for going forward as the organization grows just for right now mhm well and again I think I think the hardest problem is setting the initial state right because the the going
(28:05) forward problem is an easier one that’s like a single person can make a proposal for what they think the the distribution should be and then that just goes to a vote right it’s perod yeah or we could do it periodically like the way that we do for coordinat right right right right and yeah because as people’s I’m going to say like as as people’s people’s contribution to the project changes from period to period so team’s contributions overall to the project might also vary from period to
(28:42) period yeah no absolutely I mean especially when like now in this early stage where engineering is is very very important but hopefully we come to a place where like engineering ENT enters maintenance mode right and maybe that changes the relative distribution I mean like maybe the other thing that to remember is like I think one thing that we haven’t really gotten to yet but but is is touched on by this discussion I think is that like one thing to remember is that coordinate is sort of a system for like post post token but I think the
(29:17) landscape changes drastically pre-t token and post token right the urgency around getting this done now is because we’re making agreements where contract agreements where people want to understand like what what amount of token are they getting right and and so like that that’s why these like relative weights and this discussion in particular matters whereas like post token that that’s what we use like this we’re figuring out how to set the the rules of the game right in the long term like how how a treasury distribute its
(29:51) money is directly rated related to like how we distribute tokens in this period but anyway all that that long aside where were we so we’ve confirmed a five teams I believe and we were discussing about the voting system to decide the weighted this showing this and then I think I think a few people giving feedback on modifications to your proposed survey tool right MH which I would I do somewhat agree but I feel like there’s only seven or eight of us and I mean if we’re really going to like manipulate the system that much I I
(30:30) don’t know I think for now we don’t need to get that extensive to not let people vote for their own team or something like that yeah I think it’s I think it feels more comfortable not be able to vote for yourself but I mean Do’s like some takes a lot of like the pressure away I’m just trying I’m trying to think of the like like it makes sense if it’s teams that arrive at consensus over what their relative what they think their relative distribution should be to other teams also presents the problem of like
(31:06) I mean I guess it’s just a meeting right where everybody gets together and decides the relative distribution but yeah because we can’t do it on an individual basis because then I’m I’m trying to think through the math of it of like what anyway I don’t think anybody’s proposing we do it on that like do it that way on an individual basis because there’s also a lot of Team crossover yeah okay so maybe maybe that’s like the assignment is like everybody’s got to get together with
(31:37) before next Tuesday everybody’s got to get get together with their team or if they’re like a single team and produce three thing or like yeah three things a description of the team the proposed responsibilities of the team and then what they think the relative token distribution should be to other teams yeah that makes sense to me oh how about making a spreadsheet with all us community members and the team we’re on and then columns where we vote on the relative allocation for the other teams we could easily see that we’re not
(32:16) voting for our team which is a rule I like too is sorry I’m sorry what’s the proposal to use Excel to spreadsheet yeah just a spreadsheet on on dri space or whatever where we list in row the individual community members right and one the other column next to each individual would be his team what team he’s on and then the other five columns would be the votes on the allocation of tokens which are not which do not include the column for his team yeah I I know I I know what you mean I I can do that simply yeah it’s
(33:00) very simple and then we’d see how we aggregate that yes I I I will prepare it tomorrow if you guys don’t mind I will traving today and tomorrow I can prepare that for you and Sh general or I think the the problem with that is one is team overlap so like I’m on the governance and Bev team right and and so like if I’m individual like I I think they should be individual meetings with each team right where where they like arrive at consensus over this right so like the engineering team has their
(33:36) own meeting where they where they come to consensus over because because we ALS they also have to the teams also have to decide description and responsibilities so so like the the teams need to come to consensus about that and then also their what what they think as a team should be the relative distribution to others that way like I can be in the bizdev meeting where we do this and then I can also be in the governance meeting where we do this and because if we do it on that like individual basis then yeah because
(34:06) there’s there’s a bunch of people like John would be on the engineering team and the governance team and maybe the governance one is the only one with like wild overlap I don’t know what do you guys think it’s true that we do it individually our votes as individuals will have less weight we got this right so there are 10 people on development and just one in finance my opinion will will be much stronger right than an indidual opinion of the development department right so my my point here would be like
(34:50) initially each of the teams should have like 20% of or sorry 20% of the point whatever points right so what I mean is should the Departments have the same weight at the beginning right or should that be based on on the number of team members or I don’t know it’s it’s not obious for me guys can can I say that although I like John’s proposal for not being able to vote on yourself that could also create problems because if we have to vote on other teams like for example very large number of teams very
(35:31) large teams like engineering and so forth they could give disproportionate amounts of tokens to teams that are really not that important I mean so that that’s the other side I thought I thought we were having one vote one opinion per team so not every member of engineering team votes the in that case maybe you should take into account what David just said about weighing each team based on the the number of of people on that team weighing each team’s vote based on the number of people in that in that team
(36:06) I’m a little confused okay suppose I don’t know engineering has five people just just suppose and David is finance he’s one person right so if that were the only two teams there’s six people in all and there’s like one six the David’s team would be weighed by one six and engineering would be weighed 56 does that make any sense I think what you’re saying is that like in that in that case engineering would have to give 100% to finance and finance would have to give 100% to engineering but the 100% would be I mean
(36:48) it would be 5050 the 50 50% would be shared by six people in engineering but only shared by one person in finance is that correct well go ahead well I just I just think I think it’s like the what David’s concern was is that like his if if we wait it and tell me if I’m wrong David but like if we have it so that each department is is submitting one number then each department has the same weight and so David’s vote matters a lot M more than Go’s vote for instance exactly exactly and and the other way
(37:32) around right if we voted based on the number of members right then my vote becomes insignificant because I’m one versus I don’t know 10 or eight right so I I’m not giving a solution I’m just Rising a concern or a a problem though because you as the single person Department you are that department exactly and so you get the whole vote you get the entire say within that department of how that department votes uh in engineering team with several people they have to come to some agreement about that but how they come
(38:18) to that agreement is like it’s entirely up to them like they could all just say like hey you one person in our department you make the decision we trust you to make the decision or they could have some kind of Vote or they however they want to do it yeah that’s true don’t problem yeah but on the example on the example you proposed John supposing we have those two teams again the engineering and the and the finance team only right and Engineering can only vote on on finance and finance can only vote
(38:50) on engineering so so so if the votes are equal equal if the votes have equal power or equal weight then you’d have a 50/50 distribution which would which may or may not be ideal but I mean you’d constrain and it wouldn’t if there’s only two teams that’s the problem and and it would teams that yeah if there’s three teams that problem is mitigated if there’s four it’s further mitigated and if there’s five I have to just check to see if that’s a problem at all I’m not
(39:28) so I I I just I I I think that the the only thing is how fair we want to be right if I want to be one if I just look for my interest right I want all the all the Departments to have the same weight right because I will decide for one of the company yeah right but and maybe that’s not fair but it’s also not fair there’s some pressure you yeah exactly and not not because of the pressure it’s because of if I’m I’m egoistic I can just think of me instead of the benefit of the whole company
(40:09) right and which is not the case and the other way around it’s then my department as it’s just one person becomes insignificant in the totality of the company so I I’m not really sure how what is the right approach I I needed to give it a thought to be honest yeah yeah it’s worth thinking about I will give that some thought as well my my first instinct is that that type of problem is inherent in any system that we choose where the votes are transparent and that’s just not avoidable if the votes are
(40:48) transparent maybe maybe that problem goes away if the Voting is secret although that might introduce other problem I’m not sure I think I think you’re right in saying that it needs some thought I need to give it a little thought as well I’m not sure how how transparency think more things yeah I’m not sure how transparency would would no I’m saying like lack of transparency might mitigate that problem but introduce other problems possibly what D is saying is that there’s like a social pressure to
(41:25) vote a certain way and that if he’s only thinking about his own benefit then he would vote equally for all departments because he knows that they also are going to vote on his department so yeah there’s some sort of Game Theory there but social I would be inclined I would be inclined to to weigh each team based on the number of members but at the same time also tend towards I wouldn’t object to yes sorry sorry yeah okay so I guess here’s another way to do it I think these are both Fair ways to do it we could do it
(42:01) by vote like in the way that we describ either by secret ballot or open transparent Ballot or we could just start everybody off on equal footing where every team is waited by the number of members and let it evolve by I don’t know I feel like then we would still need some kind of voting to let it vary from that on my on my side I was just thinking and and again I I I I I came to the conclusion I did more thinking because I was thinking okay if when do if we do that each department can vote to the other department and the both of
(42:39) each department has the same weight right and the persons in that department cannot vote themselves then the problem is solved but actually it’s not because I my vote right as an individual will be will become super important against the of an individual that is in a larger in a larger team so that’s not a solution to yeah maybe it’s lesser of the evils though if you are acting as a department and you get all the vote of that department it does make your individual vote more powerful than other individuals but it preserves the
(43:17) sanctity of the which maybe while not perfect is the lesser of two evils possibly not saying that it is but possibility yeah it relies on assuming that we act faithful and as a professional and not as an listic leader yeah and again as a small group we all trust each other and there’s social pressure on all of us as well to act fairly and to not be crazy or insane and just to act as as we do in social situations reasonable individ so as a small group The maybe the problem is not maybe the problem just grows as as the team grows and then
(44:05) needs to be solved in a more rigorous way yes because it’s not maybe we are getting out of to but this is not about how faithful you are actually about the perception of the other K about you being fa right imagine Andre and is I give and 30% of my vote right and that’s and others consider and this is just one person he just do I don’t know the agreements between the company and the and the Consultants right this is not fair maybe they talk to each other to give them more power in the company which is actually not true
(44:50) but you cannot control possession right but away I mean we’re not going to if we try to come up with a perfect system we will never come up with anything because we won’t come up with a perfect system ever yeah that’s right that’s I I think personally almost any system that has basic fairness at this level would be fine just because we all know each other and there’s few of us the challenge comes as the group grows and keeping it fair and systematic although again some of the problems also disappear as a group grows
(45:28) because things like the 50/50 problem of two groups goes away and some of the issues where there’s like a one Department one person Department would also presumably go away as the team grows so I don’t know I’m all for thinking about it more but I’m also I’m pretty flexible about as long as we choose a system that has basic fairness built in I’m not too particular about the details at this point yeah totally agree I think we should arrive at a decision hopefully by next Tuesday and but as I see it and and
(46:04) please again correct me if I’m wrong but I think that there are basically two proposed paths one is that every person votes for every team and then we arrive at like sort of an average of that and then we just trust that yeah people are not we we have the social trust that people because I I will say it’s like yeah if we if we assume the most like base and like selfish motives of everyone else like I think it’s a good basis for like when we’re obviously we wouldn’t be here if we didn’t think like
(46:33) that most of the time because like crypto but I think in terms of like thinking about the success of the company right like wanting to take more right at the expense of maybe a good functioning company and setting setting correct priorities is like more because like really it’s like is the token successful well it depends on whether or not we’re able to make good decisions and allocate resources prudently so anyway so that’s one path the second path which I actually really like is the idea that teams arrive at consensus and
(47:07) subm submit their teams waiting only for other teams and so then like teams individually can decide whatever process they want for arriving at that final number we just need to take the average for for the teams and not waiting them on the basis of and and I guess we could either do that or wait that on the basis of the the size of the either waited or unweighted I’ll add that okay so so to recap Bo you’re you’re proposing the the first and most simple solution is to that each Community member votes on all the teams
(47:41) can vote on any teams regardless of whether they they belong to that team or not I like that solution because I mean it’s like a constituent assembly we’re all just voting each of us also it’s easy enough to yeah it’s easy enough we could just do both right like do both and see what the numbers look like but but either way so so yeah I’m sorry I didn’t mean to cut you off what were you say yeah well the other the other solution is that each team submit a team a team vote right and then you have the
(48:15) question of what I mean how much does does each team weigh and that’s what David was talking about he he’s talking about one team one person teams versus many people teams so then you would have to take into account the the weight of each team’s vote number I wrote something I wrote something on the chat about that as a as a mechanism for deciding the the initial team team votes waight it’s just a mixture of between the uniform distribution and the distribution based on on the number of members of the team I would prefer to
(48:52) not be able to vote for my own team I think it just feels more comfortable I don’t know if other people feel that way yeah I I like it it’s less stressful yeah I think so it doesn’t still rule out the individual vote you could just say you can vote on every team except your just just a Twist on on on on this we can do the mixture that he say but without voting each other te our own team meaning point a and point B right then average 50/50 without the possibility of voting ourselves right then you will
(49:32) have 50 representation of the teams themselves and then a 50% representation of the individuals of the company or 50 or whatever we consider but that might be a solution so my vote is not super important at at 100% And the both of larger teams are val the same of a small team guys did we just invent by Camal governance we so so like a house and a senate functionally right like we have a we have a house where everybody votes and then we have a senate that’s representative of each team man just probably what it felt like at
(50:13) theal Congress yeah yeah simar simar that was the blockchain of that of those old times it really was yeah go yeah go give our love to King King Louis the 16th in in that revolutionary Spirit David yeah yeahp Bros that day yeah but they could have PS all right you say you like their hats I mean that they also chop some heads yeah yeah that’s I’m saying they also Cho some heads yeah you can go yeah dog with cat dog with hat dog dog with hat yeah exactly we come full circle okay we were supposed to so so okay so so to to
(51:03) summarize everything things we need to do we we’ve sort of decided on teams I need to reach out to Andre and Don to make sure that they don’t object to those those that team composition teams need to organize a meeting to get together and settle on their this is this is path number one they need to get together to decide settle on a description and responsibilities for their teams so that’s something that every team needs to do before Tuesday again I I will write this up and and and and send it out to to the relevant team
(51:36) leads and then because it’s it’s also going to go in there’s there’s some governance other governance stuff that’s going to be going on in in parallel with that then next Tuesday like let’s give it some time to think maybe a post in the chatting governance Dow channel for evolving thoughts on these voting systems if we want to like continue this conversation there but by next Tuesday we need to arrive again we we should have the descriptions and responsibilities of the teams and so we
(52:03) need to decide on the system by which we vote for the relative distribution of those teams and then we just need to enact that simply simply enact that and then get ready for the round to start on June 1st and I mean I guess there’s some other questions that are still up in the air like how long do those cires are those circles and are they one month are they three months this is a decision that needs to be decided this I wanted to bring up but is not something we need to decide we are sort of at the the end
(52:31) of Everything But the last thing I would like to to try and settle on is can we set a date for our like Kumbaya session where we talk about what we’ve been doing and what we contributed between the period of January 27th and now yes no anytime is fine for me yeah we can set a date any any time is fine can can we do Friday evening does Friday does Friday evening work with someone I think you’re on bis Jose I I I’m I’m not sure but I think that’s the I think you you fall in the bis death category yeah I would say
(53:09) so too and so we’ll we’ll organize a bis Dev meeting but yeah if we could if everybody could get together and like we could have a beer Friday afternoon or Friday afternoon Friday evening and take an hour hour and a half talk about like what just remind ourselves what we been doing so that we can then go and go through the process of entering that into our activity oh would you look at that Alex already has and and then we can go through what it looks like to vote but again everybody here is invited to that meeting I would say Friday what
(53:43) time works like 5: p.m. High Time really early for Jose okay but yeah that’s noon for us I think it’s early for Jose yeah maybe Jose I think this Friday right yeah in a few days yeah okay we do one hour later right I think six is seven in I think six works right Jose if I remember right yep okay yes correct six yeah I’ll try to be there but I think six is R5 is your six so I think R six is your seven which is better oh actually I believe 6 would be 6:00 a.m.
(54:32) would be better because I got to take the kids to school and then the boy to his therapy and stuff so so I’ll try to squeeze so it’s it’s 10: a.m. for you now right it’s 10: a.m. here yes yeah okay so then 5:00 p.m. Thailand is 6 P so 5 5:00 p.m. Thailand Friday oh yeah that works that works okay okay then I will send out or actually Mike would you mind sending out a a Google calendar invite I just don’t know that I have everybody contact okay even I’m kind of perfect and then I okay go yeah I will write up a quick summary and then and then yeah let’s and
(55:10) then Mike let’s talk about how to write up the or like get the AI summary of of the whole meeting yeah I mean the transcriptions are there and the audio but I’ll work on it for this this nextt one oh if that’s true then just link it to me and I’ll do it okay okay it takes time to I mean yeah I’ll get you recording at this one then okay want to do it yeah we can figure it out we’ll figure it out whatever time can be added to the community calendar please say it one more time David oh you want to add this
(55:46) to so yeah I don’t know if everybody knows we have a load pipe Community Google Calendar so anybody could anybody in the world can subscribe and see what’s on there we put this on there then are we do are we going to do this in the dis Discord b or is this private I think I think this one is now town hall because like it’s sort of like the the first one was like it was really limited because it was just like everybody who had done pre homs of work it was like really like a lot of that was done before we had even made the
(56:16) Discord but now I feel like it probably could be done in the town hall okay sure I’ll put it on that I would just mention that to not miss any meeting right where we can see the meetings we have as a team yeah not miss any of okay I will put it on the that calendar then as well as send invites to as many people as I can okay all right think we’re good I think yeah I think so thanks everyone thanks everybody have a good day or night thank you okay see you guys tomorrow see you see later [Music] hey [Music]