Transcript:

(00:03) all right want to take it away Bo all right so I think I think we got a lot of people here and probably enough to get started but see typed out just a little bit of an agenda and what the the goals should be you can read through these things and yeah we still have not as many as we used to but certainly some very sticky issues to be decided for June 1 round and obviously time is sort of running out to make those decisions or to come up with a with a with a different solution and I will say I guess maybe maybe it might be worth
(00:43) adding that there has been this discussion around whether or not like independent of the coordinate BRS whether or not it makes sense to make independent like a guaranteed distribution agreements with like individual members and so we can we can touch on that as well like and because yeah I think that is its own sort of independent issue but I guess let’s let’s go through in order so the status of the pre around it’s closing in two days I will give a an announcement to everybody in the the general the general like announcements
(01:23) channel in the Discord tonight and then again tomorrow just make sure because there there’s most everybody has voted but not everybody has and the only thing I would continue to to suggest is is writing specific notes again to people I think it I think it might be a helpful and like sort of Team Building E practice and so that’s that’s what I would say as far as like the next steps I guess I’ll stop here I mean I think I think we’ve had enough meetings to like sort of go through the process but are
(01:53) are there any are there any questions or concerns about that like prom’s around at this point seconds it’s going to be great great milestone I’m excited to get over this Milestone will be nice yes it will be very nice to to actually see what initial token distributions are for for that for that period now I one thing to note about that that and the second like retroactive route is that we we we will have arrived at a distribution of those total tokens but we will not have arrived at a weight of what it means to
(02:27) be involved in the preh homs around and I think a lot of that flows from we don’t understand what like a month over month rate looks like of like a relative distribution of the total team allocation once we have that I think it’s a little bit easier to like put that in context so if we understand like how what what percentage of Team allocation we’re Distributing each month in the terms of in terms of like our Norm normal rounds then it’ll be easier to like calculate right like given the time period that this covers like it’s x
(02:59) amount of months which implies like this percentage if we were operating on the the assumption that like we’re giving out it implies a y percentage if we have an X percentage of like what we’re giving out per month anyway which is some multiple of X so next steps yeah just I think I have not looked at the second round I think okay we got a lot more activity I will also make an announcement about that but like we we told people to to vote on that by or sorry to to to write up what they had done by next Tuesday so so we still have
(03:38) a little bit more time there and then we have a little bit more voting rounds we we I think we still need to schedule a second Kumbaya or at least send out the event invite because we had a nice Kumbaya that I think everybody was there for on Friday and but we talked about going through in a little bit more of a systemic way and understanding like what was happening at various points in time during these like early HS at days all right so that’s an update on what the retroactive rounds are last week we all decided that there are five
(04:11) teams I do think that maybe it’s worth talking about here that I think that there was some misunderstanding about what the governance team was whether or not the the governance team is separate from like the foundation partner team does anybody want to want to speak to that because my understanding was that the government governance team and the foundation Partners right now are are one and the same and that governance expands as we expand the decision-making processes of like the foundation Partners yeah I I think I misunderstood
(04:44) that but I think I I think at the Kumbaya I was informed that it’s the same team and it makes it does make sense to me I I yeah I don’t know if everybody agrees that’s the case that means that’s the case that means that everyone who is on the foundation is also in another team yes that correct yes okay yeah that was definitely not clear okay I I guess it’s you said multiple teams apply to you remember well no I said it’s no no no no no I’m the only one that applies like multiple teams other than the governance
(05:23) team everybody in the governance team also is in another team also I don’t really understand what who’s doing governance if it’s not like like how how would it be a team of people that is not involved in other teams right like it so so yeah I mean like but yes the idea that there are full-time it’s like a politician a politician is a politi I mean I feel like governance is politicians politicians in don’t know disrespecting politicians but they don’t do anything but govern right I think
(05:58) yeah sure but I mean but I mean in our context right like I mean I thought it was like we have we have a governance board right where we make governance decisions we like know all the people that I think I think my understanding of what it was was maybe you are more heavily involved in governance and governance is more not the voting but more about the creation of the governance and the and the guiding and I the structuring and the the Frameworks and the tokenomics maybe tokenomics white papers I think that’s what I had
(06:29) originally thought governance meant and that would definitely be heavy heavy I mean it’s it’s part of the reason why I think like by today like we had said that every team would have a a like a description and a responsibilities did did any team actually produce a description of responsibilities for their team so where where were we supposed to put that so we hadn’t we hadn’t like placed anything yet we talked a little bit about this in the governance call on Thursday but last Tuesday because remember we said like in
(07:03) order to understand how to vote on what the weights of the team should be we need to understand what the description and weight or like and responsibilities of each of the teams are and that was we sort of set that out as homework I don’t know that any I I assume none of us did it and so I think that maybe that’s I think we need a whiteboard here we need a whiteboard what do you mean like right now yeah it would be nice but let’s say okay so we have one governance Circle right so picture it one governance
(07:37) Circle but every member of that governance circle is also in another team yes okay okay so why have the governance Circle because governance is work and governance like it requires time and it’s a work stream that has a budget for so governance governance is a circle in the middle that is overlapped by the other four four circles is it yeah yeah back to that question Bo wouldn’t I mean if if you eventually if governance is is is joined by members of the hamsa community at large that means users buyers Shoppers and that sort of
(08:20) stuff can they be members of the governance Circle I mean was isn’t that the idea eventually yeah I would imagine then there’s no overlap it’s a it’s a distinct C well I mean not necessarily right like well so one is I would say we we’re thinking about the status quo and so the status quo is like what what do the various like work streams what what are the things that people work on or at least do do work for over the course of a month or two months or whatever Epoch we decide and so in in that sense yeah
(08:54) like we’ve noticed over the past couple of weeks right like governance takes work sometimes it requires is like reading contracts and and doing an understanding like what people are asking and then we have to decide and we have to negotiate and those are like administrative tasks right like that are generally done by a management team and yeah and so that’s that’s the governance Circle right but this governance Circle I I mean maybe governance is the wrong word because it’s it is more like company operations right because it is
(09:26) distinct from the idea of like voting on the fee percentage of the marketplace I see and it is work I mean for example this meeting is a government meeting right you you could argue You could argue that this fi fits into a lot of different places but yeah I mean I I think I I think probably how does the circle start and end in the future does it need of rising for a new Circle how does that Circle begin a proposal again yeah so we talked about last Thursday the idea of like a workstream proposal that there is a team
(10:04) member theoretically a team member that would sit on in the governance Circle has the permissions to make a proposal to create a new work stream say we wanted to create a specific like treasury risk team they would make a proposal they would propose a budget they would propose a description of responsibilities and then the the government and likewise to end a team it’s a proposal or a circles in naturally right so like that’s why the the workflow govern like the workflow proposal always has a period that it’s funded it’s why I
(10:40) suggested like quarters so that way you don’t have like just a one team that sits around in in perpetuity like there’s always a sunet to A team’s funding that has to be re so like it requires a reauthorization okay so the circle can just end on its own if it’s not reauthorized yeah basically Okay so okay so we we have not decided finally how Circle membership is defined who decides how how people are arranged into circles we have not yet decided how to determine the allocations for circles right so yeah
(11:22) they’re outlined here if you’re looking at my screen we there’s things that there there’s four things I see that we still need to decide can there be team overlap right right so John you made the suggestion that like governance is a special case and it’s the only case where governance overlap can exist I made the counterargument of like I think that people sometimes will do more work in some circles than they will in others so like Luciano is is the example that comes to mind of like someone who this
(11:50) month is going to be doing like a lot of Dev work or at least at the beginning of the month is going to do a lot of work that that very solidly fits within the engineering or development team and probably at the end of the month is going to be doing a lot of work that fits pretty solidly in the business development team because we might need some like new images or slides for like the pitch deck we mean may need some like concepts for what a screen might look like of a thing that’s definitely not going to be implemented and so that
(12:15) that so so then it begs the question of like what is the criteria for team overlap and who gets to make the decision of like what what constitutes someone’s membership in a team and and so like yeah I I we can stop there and talk about those those two issues yeah see screen I I think there’s there’s I would say let’s say Lucio’s design team he’s designed Circle that’s a whole circle I think he might have other people working for as but yeah but but well that’s another angle if if lucian’s
(12:51) on a design team then how can I vote for his contribution from the bis def team yeah you would be able to you would and you would vote for maybe his Circle allocation if that was the case and he on his own team would vote for individual allegations on his design team but okay so that’s one point the other point back to my original thought was I think there’s some consum discussion I’m hearing earlier earlier it’s going to be more impactful on the allocation versus later so the overlap of circles have a higher
(13:30) impact earlier than later and what what point do we decide to go to multiples why so wait but can I can I clarify so John you’re saying that Lucio’s work this month falls into a distinct circle from development yeah it could I mean generally he’ll be doing work for different te and we consider him design te he could be design Circle as one design it why would why do why does the overlap circles have more impact early than late I don’t know if we’ve decided how we’re going to allocate these but I I think
(14:10) it’s I’m making an assumption but I think because there’s less less people now getting anything because our team is smaller and I think we’re going to have a a waiting like right the preh hamsel will be a higher waiting I think Bo had discussed that on a call earlier am I wrong I mean we haven’t deed that right but like yeah it’s possible we could apply like a 1.
(14:36) 5 multiplier to the per month rate again we don’t we don’t know what like per month weight is yet and so so like yeah we could but I don’t think we’ve come to consensus about that yet okay well does Luciano have an opinion can we hear from like Luciano do you understand the difference would you want your own Circle and design or would you want to be getting you understand what we’re talking about yeah I understand at the moment my team that that I built is is created on the YX and if I expand to other circles I
(15:12) might need support to work with the other circles as well because for example the expertise of my team for cannot on the My Assistant cannot be because he a specialist in ux understand what I mean so although I person have expertise to work on the other areas the team I I understand that but maybe we just keep keep that on the side no sorry I’m like trying to I I don’t quite no I don’t quite understand what what you’re saying I think I think someone said something after me but I I didn’t hear anything
(16:02) so it’s maybe my internet my internet can you hear me yeah yeah yeah yeah I think Mike was asking what your opinion is on this idea of like having a specific design Circle I I could be wrong Mike yeah my connection’s not I don’t know if you can hear me or not where I can hear you yes we can hear you okay I can hear you Mike okay so Lu yeah I mean I know you might need another person on your team to fulfill the bis Dev side of the design work but let’s just say you have that or you did that yourself there is a debate happening
(16:41) right now in in this call would you rather be in two circles and get people on BISD to allocate you rewards as well as in the development team or would you rather have your own circle of design that would I would prefer to have my circle of design with area that can help that gr this direction it’s not as much about the I think I feel like you’re not understanding it’s not about your team or the people it’s more about how you’re rewarded and token for your contribution I understand your meaning you mean and
(17:22) then I I take this to let’s say I have my circle and then under my circle I reward people’s under my circle well it would be so say markk Mark’s on your team maybe you got another more couple more people on your design team and within your design team you have 20 20 Tok B probably can explain it better but you have a certain amount of token that was voted between the global distribution of all the circles about how much each circle would have and then from that that distribution you would then vote
(17:53) within your circle of design team about who in the design team should be rewarded more or less me Mak sense right if like there’s a Dev team Circle and then the dev team leader will distribute for the people that he sees working harder better sense it’s not like distribution so like the whole the whole concept of is it’s not like a distribution by one person is that we go through like’ done with up into this point in that like you can’t vote for yourself and so so so there’s like two things at at odds here
(18:37) right there is the desire for predictability I think among among people right and the desire that their work is recognized and that that means that they will they will have like a all right oologist and so so okay these two these two tensions right if we have because there’s like sort of two interpretations of like how we were going to do this that that we initially thought of right the one big circle and then there’s the breaking down the circle into teams right in the one big circle everybody’s
(19:14) in the same Circle nobody can vote for themselves and tokens are just allocated to that Circle and then people get tokens based on like their perceived value and generally like I think the fear has been in a couple of different conversations that if we go with something like that then there are like hidden roles for instance the the the two that most exemplify this are David and Andre right who do accounting and legal accounting and legal are often seen as more of a hindrance than a help right like they are very very necessary
(19:48) things for everyone but in David’s case in particular right like a lot of the information that he handles is privileged and can’t be shared widely with everyone he maybe will make a report to the governance team about like burn rate right so everybody in the government’s team sees the hard work but not everybody in the wider like company sees everything that David is doing and so there’s this fear that like maybe maybe that means that he won’t get like the the the correct allocation because
(20:16) people are just unaware especially if he’s doing a good job of the things that he’s doing right the AL the the sort of like answer to that and like maybe the little workaround is creating specific teams that are relevant to the the the like necessary things that need to be done right which is what we’re describing now so in the same way there is like one large distribution per Epoch per period and that is then divided into the different necessary teams right we had settled last week on five teams a
(20:51) governance team a Dev team a BISD team an accounting and a legal team right so this way even though David and andrees are the only members of their respective teams they get some like predictable token distribution based on the idea that we’re allocating the process of going through and waiting each of the circles implies that people are looking not so much at the person more so like what how how much they value the necessary functions of that team and dividing it up that way right so so that one is like sort of a a mix I would say
(21:26) there’s like it’s a spectrum on the one hand we have it’s like one Global Circle in the middle we have that and then all the way on the other end we have sort of your just typical Corporation your typical startup which is we would just scrap everything with coordinate and start going to individual deals with everyone based on what they want in terms of tokens right and maybe there’s some some place in the middle there between those two where we have teams or we have one big circle but we’re also on
(21:55) a one toone basis negotiating token distributions individuals right so those those are basic the outline of the four basic paths right and and yeah I mean like maybe I’ll I’ll stop here I’ve been talking for a little while I wonder what you all’s thoughts are on that should we go back to discussing all four of those options rather than continuing to just dive into that team based waiting interpretation let say I feel like we’re over complicating this we’re having a lot hours discussing this every week
(22:32) man and we have a lot of important stuff coming up we got deadin well this is very important it’s not as urgent as some other things I mean urgency versus importance so I’m going to vote that we just go a circle until after July 8th and we continue to discuss this and we continue to turn it over our heads and come back to it as soon as that July 8th deadline is over I actually I fully support that that’s my V yeah yeah I think that’s a good idea I I think the only well yeah it’s going to require some other
(23:08) conversations because again like I think that both Luciano and David right had raised some issues with the idea of just like being subject to like one big vote but but at the same time maybe maybe if we do it just like okay agreed like I like the proposal as I understand it is let’s just do one big circle for the month of or the period of June 1st until July 8th so like the the now to ECC period by that time we will have completed both of the retroactive rounds and we will have an idea of what in Epoch looks like with one big circle and
(23:47) maybe when we re relook at some of these like individual contract negotiations it might be a little bit easier to understand what it looks like to receive a token distribution this way rather than on an individually like negotiated basis so so yeah I I I I would I could get behind that our lives a little bit Yeah I vote I vote for that and I think I just want to highlight I think those that are most fearful of not being recognized are those maybe that felt like are not getting I don’t want to say attention I
(24:18) think we just have to do a better job as a team to highlight all the contributions that everyone is making and give those people a platform to do that and and that I think I think that’s really the the core is they they want to be a which is actually very important for a culture and a company whether it’s centralized or decentralized we should give this platform for people to show what they’ve done which I think does happen in coordinate but they don’t have not I don’t have the experience either
(24:49) of using it so I think we have to do as a better as best of a job as like a leadership to highlight those people’s contributions I agree yeah and so I would I would put forward like so I guess then next steps is I need to make the coordinate round for this period and then I say like yeah we don’t need to spend any more mental energy like trying to come up with the perfect like token distribution system why don’t we just replace this town hall call I I would be okay with completely scrapping it but I would also be okay
(25:28) with making it once every two weeks and saying instead it’s our like weekly Kumbaya where we like or our bi-week or B monthly Kumbaya where we get together and we just start doing the ritual of like okay let’s recognize what people have been doing let’s give some props on a team wide basis and then let’s go through the process of entering them into the the the coordinate system and then and so that’ll just get it used to like going through the process and recognizing people’s people’s
(26:01) contributions and value yeah I think Jose likes likes that too yeah I see in this chat oh yeah let me read yeah yeah I mean I I am like sort of against like I’m sort of like I’ll be honest I’m sort of against individual like token guarantees in in in a general sense because I think it’s sort of undermines the legitimacy of the circle like I think if we do it for anyone we have to do it for everyone and I think as soon as we devolve into like just like the Privileges of the people who are better at negotiating versus the
(26:43) people who are better at contributing and I think and I may be wrong I’m willing to like be wrong and go back on this but I my hypothesis is that if we continue to like do the the kumbayas to recognize people’s contributions and take some time to like ask people what they’ve been doing what the value of that is then then I think people will see that they end up getting like what they believe is a a pretty fair distribution of the tokens as a result of the system I hope right and I guess we’ll see so so I guess can can we can I
(27:20) say like unanimous consent decree please please object if you if you have a a problem with it but for now we’re tbling the town hall for we’re tbling the coordinate Town Hall we’re implementing one big system between now and or one big circle between now and ECC that everybody’s in we will cut the number of meetings in half to once every two weeks and that’ll function as our like shout out Kumbaya meeting where we give let everyone know like what we’ve been contributing during during that
(27:55) time okay so I put in the chat but I I feel we’re all like that but is next week Kumbaya then or I guess a b more technical question yeah then I guess the question is do we want to do Tuesday or Friday then Jose does have a point I mean should we we do have other tokenomics I mean that we could discuss instead of coordinate and circles Jose that’s true but I don’t think I I will say like I don’t I don’t know the like it’s a I don’t know that it’s a prior oh well okay no to that
(28:32) point because like after we get this pitch deck out tomorrow then my focus for the next month is going to be like building out a light paper that goes into a little bit more technical detail and flushing that out so that that can also be distributed and I think but I think that that’s a separate discussion I think I think maybe those will be organized uh separately than than this but I I don’t know what are people’s feelings on Kumbaya Tuesday versus K on Friday cuz I do like Friday yeah I like that’s true I like I’m getting I like
(29:04) Jose’s input maybe we could we could take next Tuesday off we we have a lot of calls and we are trying to get this demo done I think that’s another point that we should respect so maybe we can skip next Tuesday and then next Friday’s Kum or or even this or this yeah let’s let’s cancel economics for now let’s say next Friday my my my thinking would be next Friday kumay and then two Fridays After Kumbaya and then and then yeah maybe if if we do have a tokenomics call we can organize it on an ad hoc basis because
(29:45) it will be something that I will want to like flesh out a little but like not in an incredible amount of detail it’s not like a wild priority pre City what time was that Jose’s clarifying and I think it was the same time as last Friday which was 500 p.m. tie time yeah I think it’s 5:00 p.m.
(30:06) TI I’m in China now but yeah I think it was 500 P p.m. tie time if that’s what last tues yeah I mean the same time as last Friday Jose okay great does anybody have points I mean it’s best we try to raise it as a team I know some point people want conflict but I think we should go back to the point we don’t I think I I I also feel like the same we start to make these individual deals for certain people then it kind of defeats the purpose of of coordinate but it it I think everybody’s start to want to get their own deal too
(30:39) right that’s what I think I think it’s get pretty complicated to have both systems overlapping each other I would I think there there will be some problems to solve there might get complicated I would cautiously leave it at just one big wide team and see how everything evolves from there I mean after all we’re still we’re barely doing finishing the the preamps around and I don’t know just take it from there like say on on July we can reconvene and try to make decisions about team configuration and all that stuff yeah
(31:14) and I think that probably wouldn’t take place until mid to late July like because I know after ECC I mean I think maybe immediately after some of us probably going to have to do quite a bit of let followup and stuff like that but I know at least the dev team should be taking like some time off cuz we we have like a lot there’s a lot we’re asking of them right now and and so yeah they’ll they they’re going to be working pretty hard for the next six weeks and then there’ll be some deserved time off and
(31:43) then maybe we can cautiously tiptoe back into some meetings like this yeah plus we’ll have more data by then I mean see how everything works out yep okay yeah I have some some insights yeah please so assuming we move forward as a single cluster if we have to draw some learnings from a centralized system of course there are I guess you can call it like group leads right so John definitely has the lead on the dev side Mike has more of the lead on the B death alongside with Bo I I keep a close eye to many of you I think as as leads of of
(32:27) different groups we also bear the responsibility of highlighting or in individual team members effort I think John did a good job at the shouting of don’t have as much goach to school but don’t devalue the value of how he brings effort into the team the same goes for Jose so so it’s it’s for me it’s it’s a different way of working where we also are aware that some members within our team may work more in silence and so as it’s team leads we have to highlight these efforts on I would say at least a five weekly basis
(33:04) we could think about whether we do this on the Kaya calls or in other calls either ritten or in voice but the this would help us become aware of what happens even in the fire of the cluster I’ll just say I just like the idea it’s the team lead’s role to make sure that we’re they’re highlighting their team’s contributions to the to the broader te team I I definitely like that it’s a good practice because it also brings into life how how well individual teams are communicating together it may
(33:38) also just be done through proxies so if I speak with you John now on Friday you mentioned some things to me about what you have observed I think it’s important that we do our best to communicate on behalf of others who are putting effort into the project does that make sense everybody yeah I agree yep yes be good yeah and I of course help as well I’m I’m very curious to hear what people are doing and I wish I had the had more years so so I could hear more in the pars of the cluster but the bigger we
(34:16) get the more teams will be developed the more influence these teams will have of course so so yeah it’s a good practice to get started now okay cool well if nobody has anything else to add I think we can break I think yeah elegant solution I’ll make some outlines today I’m sorry I’ll make some write up some announcements today to remind people to vote in this round and then to inform them of this decision and then I guess we can allow maybe a two-day like objection period and and I should I put
(34:44) that in like the general team chat because like obviously not nobody’s here or like not everybody’s here but if we make an announcement and say hey like you have any objections to that idea and please put it here and then we can we can discuss but but I think it’s pretty good at least temporary solution that allows us to to stop thinking about it for now sounds good yeah maybe a general chat team chat yeah am I still there yeah I can hear you you’re breaking up a little okay yeah I I just said I think it’s
(35:17) good to put into team chat text channel for people to maybe be aware of I don’t know how would they vote or or acknowledge or just not accept your point like to DM you or to comment or something no I I think it’s just well I mean I guess they could DM me but yeah we don’t really have a system for this yet I think maybe this idea of unanimous consent is the like because this is sort of one of those more like we’re making a team wide decision it’s not just the four governance Partners I don’t know that it
(35:52) requires like unanimous consent but like this idea that like if we say hey we’re making this decision if you have any objections please let us know you can reach out to me individually or post you can like start a thread and and say you don’t like it or whatever we can then discuss but but I it’s like an okay solution for now and I’ll highlight why okay great sounds good good job I I like this sounds good yeah I think we did good we we we discussed options and and we seem to General consensus so I think this is a
(36:27) great call all right um all right have a good night and good day okay thank you guys all right bye bye all right see you guys Friday [Music] [Music]